Right to Work Bill

[tooleman]

Well as I see it when you apply to work somewhere ie union you agree to what terms that they set forth, mainly you work and they pay. If they are a union out fit then you pay there dues, however along with that is all the benefits insurance, pensions, being able to go from state to state and find work.(mainly trades) There is alot that goes along with being in a union it is not black and white. No I not a union worker. To me it is just another way that our government is telling business owners what they can and cant do. If a person doesnt want to pay union dues then find some other type of work. walmart is always looking for people just look at there check out lines 30+ no one to run them.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Sorry about the purple ,but i could not resist.
I do work for a union.
I'm glad that I have someone to watch my back.
No I don't agree with the union political contributions.
No I don't agree with the corporate political contributions.
I am proud that my department just achieved 20 years accident free.
I am a registered republican. No I'm not happy with the crap they have pasted last year here in Indiana.
I payed $19,000 in state and federal taxes last year.
I pay for my own retirement. No company contributions.
I do believe in a honest dollar for honest days work.
No I don't work for the Auto industry.

Getting rid of the Unions is not the answer. Thats what this bill will do , does anyone remember what happened up at Delphi several years ago. That is what will happen to every union job in Indiana

Folks , there are good and bad employees/employers in every trade/business out there.

This bill threatens my ability to support my family .



Just random thoughts

Delphi's problem was because it was spun off thinking that there would be a financial heyday, the problem was it was so bloated because of the debt that was carried over that it died because of it's own weight. It couldn't financially support itself with out direct support from GM.

So if this bill threatens your ability for you and every other union member to support your/their family, then how do all the other union members in states that allow right to work survive?

Think long and hard about your reply, because you have just backed yourself to the edge of a cliff and are perilously close to falling off because of using that argument.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Well as I see it when you apply to work somewhere ie union you agree to what terms that they set forth, mainly you work and they pay. If they are a union out fit then you pay there dues, however along with that is all the benefits insurance, pensions, being able to go from state to state and find work.(mainly trades) There is alot that goes along with being in a union it is not black and white. No I not a union worker. To me it is just another way that our government is telling business owners what they can and cant do. If a person doesnt want to pay union dues then find some other type of work. walmart is always looking for people just look at there check out lines 30+ no one to run them.

Well we can see that you don't have a job as a English teacher.

So, what happens when the people you herded towards Wal-Mart unionize and their meager wages are raped by union dues? Where will you send them to work then?

The above stated benefits ie.. insurance, retirement ect..ect.. can be had at a non union place of employment that in most places are equal or much better than union shops.

I'd bet that there are a ton of union people out there that would crap @ the benefits that non union employers are shelling out because of the crap and extra burden that a union puts upon them.

It's a fact that unions will not admit to, and continue to deny that there are employers that pay better, and have better benefits than what unions say they can provide, and I challenge you and any non right to work supporter to prove me wrong.

 

[tooleman]

Well we can see that you don't have a job as a English teacher.
True

So, what happens when the people you herded towards Wal-Mart unionize and their meager wages are raped by union dues? Where will you send them to work then?

Well Indiana is at will work state, so if the all those people tried to start a union then walmart would fire them.

The above stated benefits ie.. insurance, retirement ect..ect.. can be had at a non union place of employment that in most places are equal or much better than union shops.

True just take a look at what all the people who abuse welfare get.

I'd bet that there are a ton of union people out there that would crap @ the benefits that non union employers are shelling out because of the crap and extra burden that a union puts upon them.

can not answer that one, never had a union job.

It's a fact that unions will not admit to, and continue to deny that there are employers that pay better, and have better benefits than what unions say they can provide, and I challenge you and any non right to work supporter to prove me wrong.

I really do not care what they really can or can not offer in benefits. The goverment should not be able to tell an employer how to hire workers.

 

[dross]

I didn't say it would be mass chaos. BUT When the unions are all gone you will all be making minimun wages. None of these companies pay good wages because they are good guys. They have been forced to by the unions.

There are no unions in my field. I make many times minimum wage, and I make much more than most union workers.

Why doesn't the company I work for pay only minimum wage? Why have I never made minimum wage since my very first job in 1978?

I agree, no one pays good wages because they are good guys. Why then, do I make more than almost all union workers and I've never been in a union, no one in my field is in a union, and none of the companies I've ever worked for have union workers?

 

[Stschil]

There are no unions in my field. I make many times minimum wage, and I make much more than most union workers.

Why doesn't the company I work for pay only minimum wage? Why have I never made minimum wage since my very first job in 1978?

I agree, no one pays good wages because they are good guys. Why then, do I make more than almost all union workers and I've never been in a union, no one in my field is in a union, and none of the companies I've ever worked for have union workers?

Quite simply because you possess a needed skill and are able to command a higher wage because of its need. But I think you already knew that
As I'm sure you know the following, but this isn't directed at you. Im just using your questions as a jump off place.

If an employer was in desperate need of someone to pilot a broom to remove refuse from the floors or someone to repeticiously place screw A into hole B I'm sure those with these incredibly uncommon skills would also command a high wage. However, these are not uncommon and require less than moderate skill and training to accomplish. They should not be associated with more than a meager wage, yet when Unions become involved, suddenly the broom pilot, the hole filler become "essential". The collective threatens walk outs, slow downs, etc if they aren't paid "at scale"

Every employer must balance the costs of labor with their ability to produce a product at a price that makes it attractive to buyers. When labor costs go up, the employer does not eat that cost, it's passed on to the consumer. The same goes for cost of goods.

Unions drive both of these costs up. It's an upward spiral. UAW demand more benefits and lay for its hole fillers and broom pilots, the cost of the end product goes up for the consumer. Steel workers union demands more, the cost of raw materials go up to the auto manufacturer and ultimately the consumer.
Union workers, having driven the cost of living up for everyone, now can't afford to afford the lifestyle that they have been accustomed to, so the next time a contract comes up, the strike or threaten to, demanding higher wages and benefits and the cycle starts all over again.

 

[other guy]

Sorry about the purple ,but i could not resist.
I do work for a union.
I'm glad that I have someone to watch my back.
No I don't agree with the union political contributions.
No I don't agree with the corporate political contributions.
I am proud that my department just achieved 20 years accident free.
I am a registered republican. No I'm not happy with the crap they have pasted last year here in Indiana.
I payed $19,000 in state and federal taxes last year.
I pay for my own retirement. No company contributions.
I do believe in a honest dollar for honest days work.
No I don't work for the Auto industry.


Getting rid of the Unions is not the answer. Thats what this bill will do , does anyone remember what happened up at Delphi several years ago. That is what will happen to every union job in Indiana

Folks , there are good and bad employees/employers in every trade/business out there.

This bill threatens my ability to support my family .



Just random thoughts

Are you still going to vote republican after what they are trying to do to you and your family? I can't believe peoples attitude that union workers make too much. I feel that you are not making too much, they are making too little. If they could get a union job they would be better off. Their solution is for you to make less. I must be missing something here.

 

[Stschil]

Are you still going to vote republican after what they are trying to do to you and your family? I can't believe peoples attitude that union workers make too much. I feel that you are not making too much, they are making too little. If they could get a union job they would be better off. Their solution is for you to make less. I must be missing something here.

Just a question, Sir. What exactly do you do to make your living?
What is it that is in such demand that commands such a lucrative wage and is so important in the grand scheme of life that it requires a group to defend?

I drive a truck. It's one of many things that I have done in my lifetime. I make better than the median wage across the US and am not a Teamster. In fact, one place I haul from employs teamsters and they have the net effect of lowering my ability to get my job done because of their slow, ineffective processes. Each person has a specific job and is not "allowed" to do another. I, due to their contract, am not allowed to do anything that there is a teamster employed to do. For instance, my trailer with its load sits at a dock, I am forbidden to hook to it until a teamster pulls it forward at least 5 feet, does this make any sense?
The company is wasting money by allowing this. 5 feet? Come one, it takes me the exact same amount of time to hook to trailer, it would add addition 2 seconds of my time to pull it 5 feet. It lowers the number of hours I can legally drive, therefore lowers the number of miles I can cover. It costs the company salary for a position that is UNNEEDED. Yet I have to believe that A union keeps wage competition alive and healthy?

In addition: I do have one thing to thank the Teamster for, though.
The company I work for was able to pick up the routes we drive after the Teamsters union tries to double the amount of $$ they wanted to be paid during their last "negotiations" and lost them business. Their greed also put approx 50 drivers out of work.

 

[dross]

Are you still going to vote republican after what they are trying to do to you and your family? I can't believe peoples attitude that union workers make too much. I feel that you are not making too much, they are making too little. If they could get a union job they would be better off. Their solution is for you to make less. I must be missing something here.

Here's how you know if you're making too much:

There are people who are willing and able to do your job for less money, but the law is constructed in such a way that your employer may not hire them.

If there are other people who are willing and able to do your job for less money, you're making too much.

If there is no one who is willing and able to do your job for the amount of money you make, you're making too little.

Everything else is artificial, which is why it takes force - enFORCEment - to make sure people follow this artificial twisting of the market.

Your own argument goes against you. You all but admit that you couldn't make as much money unless the union and the laws enforcing its demands didn't drive up the price of your labor.

Case closed. You've won my argument for me.

 

[jsgolfman]

Here's how you know if you're making too much:

There are people who are willing and able to do your job for less money, but the law is constructed in such a way that your employer may not hire them.

If there are other people who are willing and able to do your job for less money, you're making too much.

If there is no one who is willing and able to do your job for the amount of money you make, you're making too little.

Everything else is artificial, which is why it takes force - enFORCEment - to make sure people follow this artificial twisting of the market.

Your own argument goes against you. You all but admit that you couldn't make as much money unless the union and the laws enforcing its demands didn't drive up the price of your labor.

Case closed. You've won my argument for me.

 

[CarmelHP]

Your own argument goes against you. You all but admit that you couldn't make as much money unless the union and the laws enforcing its demands didn't drive up the price of your labor.

Case closed. You've won my argument for me.

dross, you must be an idiot, can't you see how the unions excluding those other people from the job market makes their lives better too? Why,...they'd be working for lower wages instead of respectfully unemployed, we can't have that. How can you make such a silly argument?

 

[dross]

,

dross, you must be an idiot, can't you see how the unions excluding those other people from the job market makes their lives better too? Why,...they'd be working for lower wages instead of respectfully unemployed, we can't have that. How can you make such a silly argument?

My five year old daughter would have agreed just a few years ago. I remember when she was at that stage when everything was "hers."

"Mine," she would say, as she clutched some treasure of hers. Then she would grab something that belonged to someone else. "Mine," she would repeat, with exactly the same conviction.

She had no regard that by taking something from someone else by force she was depriving them by benefitting herself.

She was the living embodiment of union philosophy. She had hers. Screw the kid who didn't get his.

 

[88GT]

I left my previous employer(non-union) 7 years ago and went to work for my current employer (union) it was a lateral pay move !

Is your comment relevant to the post you quoted somehow? I don't see the connection.


Regardless, I'm going to call you a liar (tongue-in-cheek) because there is no way you could make a lateral pay move from a non-union to union job. You keep telling us that union jobs pay more because the union. So it goes without saying then that one of your statements is false. Either you did not make a lateral pay move or non-union jobs are just as likely to pay "union" wages. Which is it?

 

[Stschil]

Is your comment relevant to the post you quoted somehow? I don't see the connection.


Regardless, I'm going to call you a liar (tongue-in-cheek) because there is no way you could make a lateral pay move from a non-union to union job. You keep telling us that union jobs pay more because the union. So it goes without saying then that one of your statements is false. Either you did not make a lateral pay move or non-union jobs are just as likely to pay "union" wages. Which is it?

Or his gross pay increased in the amount equal to the dues that are paid to the Local, thus funding the lifestyles of the National, the lobbyists, and the Demoncrats, whilst providing the employer with less value for the work performed due to the increased regulations, taxes, and public handouts that are championed by the Givernment.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Right To Work/At Will... I don't care! I'm a WTW state. I Want To Work, but it seems 50-somethings aren't getting the jobs.

 

[dross]

I have a good idea.

Employers should band together and agree to a price they'll pay for labor. Everyone will pay the same price and then all the employers will have someone collectively bargain on their behalf with the employees. If they don't like the price of labor, they'll go on strike and agree that they'll all shut down their own businesses until labor agrees to accept a better price.

Also, the law would have a lot of rules about when an employee was allowed to quit and when they weren't.

What do you think, union guys?

 

[edporch]

The law allows workers to unionize. (Wagner Act)

The law allows states to pass Right to Work laws. (Taft-Hartley)

You either believe in "Rule of Law" or you don't.

 

[hooky]

Just a question, Sir. What exactly do you do to make your living?
What is it that is in such demand that commands such a lucrative wage and is so important in the grand scheme of life that it requires a group to defend?

In a previous thread, he claimed to be a small business owner, just waiting until retirement. I hope he's paying his employees at the top end of the scale and provides them with paid health insurance.

Ok pal, I'm sorry , I didn't realize that you had to be a right wing fanatic to voice your opinion on this site. I guess I didn't see that rule. I just get frustrated by people like you who want to put words in other peoples mouths or label them without a clue as to what they are saying. You act like a liberal does not value life , liberty, or personal responsibility. Nowhere did I say that I support big Gov't. Yes I do have a little problem with the Tea Baggers that got into office in Ohio ,Wisconson, and other places. So far all they have done is attempt to bust the Unions and ban Abortion while giving additional tax breaks to the JOB CREATERS. They have done nothing to help create jobs.As far as me goes. 1 I have never collected unemployment, welfare, or food stamps in my life and I am 62 yrs old. I voted for Ronald REAGON TWICE. I had my first full time job when I was 13 yrs old working 40 hrs aweek in the summers and on Saturdays in the winter while I went to school. I was lugging a fully automatic M-16 through the jungles of Vietnam when I was 19 yrs old after being drafted into the Army. So, don't preach to me about freedom or liberty, or wanting something for nothing. Presently I am a business owner just putting in my time until I retire. I have been paying for my S.S. and Medicare all my life so I get a little upset when I get some young punk acting like I want to suck off the gov't tit. Iv'e paid my dues, I wonder if you can say the same.

My bold for emphasis.

 

[other guy]

Pot, meet kettle. You are just regurgitating Union talking points, without a single shred of evidence to back it up. The Bill allows a choice to join a Union or not (I thought all you Libs were big on Choice?). Please prove how someone having a choice equals destroying Unions. or, are you saying that unless people are FORCED to join a Union, they wont? So, people are too stupid to know whats good for them and we need to Government to tell us what to do? The same Liberal politicians, btw, that think they know better when it comes to our guns?

You also ignored the stats in my post, completely. Let me ask it a different way..

If 10.9% of ALL worked in Indiana are Union, and we ended up losing ALL Unions(which is NOT the intent of this Bill, btw) then how exactly is:

..a true statement??

How would 10.9% off Indiana workers becoming non Union, cause the 89.1% of workers in Indiana to suddenly (or even eventually) be reduced to minimum wage??

What you propose is statistically impossible.

I think all you need to do is look at the states who have right to work laws currently and look at income levels in those states. I'm not going to do your homework for you, so go look it up. I can tell you what you will find. No unoins to speak of and lower wages than states without right to work laws. You should really know what you are talking about before you spout off your mouth.

 

[Classic]

Right To Work/At Will... I don't care! I'm a WTW state. I Want To Work, but it seems 50-somethings aren't getting the jobs.

That's the sad truth. Even had a headhunter tell me he couldn't move ANYBODY over fifty. His best off the record answer - "Lie about your age."