What pistol should the US Army replace the m9 with?

[HICKMAN]

Not that there is that magic round or anything, but .45 has a lot more one stop shots then the 9mm or the .40. Just my 2 cents worth.

no one wants lower capacity, a Glock 21 with 13 rounds would make sense, but they aren't going away from 9mm.

 

[WebHobbit]

They need something light (polymer frame) hi-cap (14+1) and .45 ACP.

And then were back to ENORMOUS grip dimensions. Even the XDm 45 with the smallest back panel is fairly large. Springfield couldn't make the 45 double stack XDm conform to the nice slim 9 and 40 versions of the gun. That's why the XDm in 45 is the ONLY XDm that shares magazines with it's chunkier papa XD line.

If you big-handed guys love your huge grip guns that's great but the US Military is 'supposed' to be nearly all inclusive so to me choosing a gun like the M9 is just so much BS.

 

[FFJakeT]

I'd rather have the best gun...

let me guess, a glock right? sorry, but I think we make great guns in this country, and I think that our military should spend the millions and millions of tax payer $$$$ in America, not Austria, or Italy, or anywhere else. I don't believe for one second that any U.S. soldier would have his life endangered b/c the gun was made in America. personal opinion, go back to the 1911, but higher capacity. Will that happen? Probably not. But they are other very good options made here in the States

 

[Kagnew]

M9 is a piece of junk.

As the old saying goes, opinions are like a..-holes. Everybody has one, and most of them stink.

 

[HICKMAN]

let me guess, a glock right?

yeah, that's why I said 9mm M&P earlier in the thread, right...

I only mentioned the G19 because USASOC is using them currently.


It wouldn't surprise me if FNH USA FNS-9 pistols didn't get in the action too.

 

[Hiker1911]

I wish I'd have been able to bring my G21 with me to my deployments. I went through 4 M9s, and they were all garbage.

Let me preface this by saying I'm a huge fan of the 1911 or 1911A1.

Never owned a Beretta 92F, or shot the M9 . How are they junk?

 

[dbd870]

Ahhh...not really. I dunno whose stats you are looking at but Marshall/Sanow/Ayoob stuff shows the top hollow-points in 9-40-45-357 to all be within 5-9% of each other. Not a HUGE margin for anything really.

And the larger problem is with military we aint talkin' hollow-points....were talking about old-school anemic BALL ammo. I suppose a .45 BALL round should be slightly more effective than 9mm size ball round...BUT the 9mm is going a hell of a lot faster so they probably aint all that far off from each other. If we can agree that BOTH kinda suck wouldn't you want the one that holds more? But as I said in an earlier post I think the M9 was a poor choice due to it's awful grip/back to trigger face dimensions.

And the Marshall/Sanow tripe has absolutely no basis in fact that has ever been seen. They have never submitted any evidence for their assertions and statiticians cringe at work like theirs.

 

[VERT]

Reading through all of this. Honestly I think you might see some new or updated designs come along. But my money would by on those companies with facilities in the U.S. that already have a history of working with military contracts.

In No Particular Order:

Glock 17/19 (gen 4 or updated)
Smith & Wesson M&P
Sig Sauer P226/229 (E2 or updated)
FNP-9

 

[Jeremiah]

The fns-9 seems almost built for the listed criteria.

 

[WebHobbit]

And the Marshall/Sanow tripe has absolutely no basis in fact that has ever been seen. They have never submitted any evidence for their assertions and statiticians cringe at work like theirs.

It's certainly arguable. But it's pretty much all we got.

 

[NiceGuy]

They shouldn't replace it. Great gun. Easy to shoot, carry, clean, etc. Good enough for decades, no need to change now and spend even more tax $$$ (translation - YOUR money).

 

[FFJakeT]

yeah, that's why I said 9mm M&P earlier in the thread, right...

I only mentioned the G19 because USASOC is using them currently.


It wouldn't surprise me if FNH USA FNS-9 pistols didn't get in the action too.

I skipped a couple of pages. So I must have missed that. I just saw the one you posted about the G19. I hope you understand where I am coming from on that point though. I just like American made products. I know how much guys like certain others (Especially Glocks). Not saying they are P.O.S. or anything like that. Personally, don't like them. But they are not bad guns. Iam the same way about vehicles. (grandfather worked for Ford 36 years, I get it honest lol). Lets hope they get the troops something they like like and that is dependable.

 

[TopDog]

I have seen comments both negative against the M9 and others positive. Some wonder why the negative comments. Here is why:

I was active duty USMC when the military switched over to the M9. First problem was slides. I dont remember the exact numbers but some M9's had bad slides and injured some people. Beretta got that fixed. Next up were the cracked frames. Again I don't remember the exact numbers but it was something like 25,000 gun affected. We had some in my unit and had to box them up and ship them back states side. If you want exact numbers look it up, these problems were well publicized. All of this gave the M9 a bad reputation for a long while. I shot the M9 well and had no problems with it. It has proven to be a reliable platform.

More recently there have been reports from the field of failures due to bad magazines. As I understand it that is not Beretta's fault. The magazines used to be made by MecGar and the government changed to a different manufacture.

Add all the problems on top of the 1911 being a beloved weapon used for many years by many military, police and civilians. And you can see why some bad feelings and negative opinions arise around the M9 when it replaced the 1911.

So when someone says something about the M9 being crap its history might be the influence for that opinion.

 

[churchmouse]

And then were back to ENORMOUS grip dimensions. Even the XDm 45 with the smallest back panel is fairly large. Springfield couldn't make the 45 double stack XDm conform to the nice slim 9 and 40 versions of the gun. That's why the XDm in 45 is the ONLY XDm that shares magazines with it's chunkier papa XD line.

If you big-handed guys love your huge grip guns that's great but the US Military is 'supposed' to be nearly all inclusive so to me choosing a gun like the M9 is just so much BS.

Good point and I do have large hands. My 1911 Para P-14 does not have overly large grip dimensions but a female would have problems with it. I use the p-14 Mags in my P-12 and they do extend but only a bit. 14+1 in an officers sized frame.
Not saying to use the Para, just saying they could come up with something.
Probably won't go away from 9 MM.
JMHO

 

[WebHobbit]

The length aint the issue. The problem is the distance between the back of the grip and the trigger face (in DA if it's a DA/SA gun). I guess girth would be the proper term.

 

[the1kidd03]

If they want USA made that throws out the XD(Croatia). Glock is made in Smyrna, Georgia, Sig Exeter New Hampshire and the FNs are made in Columbia South Carolina. I don't see why they would change calibers, all of NATO use 9mm NATO. It is effective. I don't know how many have first hand knowledge of the power of the 9MM NATO, but I do, it saved my life twice. Two one shot kills. I don't see a problem with the Beretta, as an armored I serviced 100 of them. All with several thousand rounds through them, and no reported malfunctions ever. If you take of your weapons they will take care of you. Also if one of my soldiers went through 4 pistols I would begin to question his technique and his maintenance.

put thousands of rounds down Beretta's...active duty and civilian...never had a single mishap.....now as a civilian I carry one for EDC....excellent gun, no problem with power..HP would be nice but gotta deal with what you're given...no point in armchair QB'ing

 

[the1kidd03]

personally, i would like to go back to the 1911 in .45acp. Most the complaints about them was that they were worn out. Well, as with any weapon, when its worn out its not going to function as well, not really the fault of the pistol. Besides the 1911 lasted how many years before it was replaced. Personally I think we should make NATO conform to US, after all, they need us more then we need them. I have worked with other NATO nations as well. As for the 9mm size, its the same thing they say about the 5.56 round, proper shot placement is key. Well, when people are trying to kill you, you aren't always going to be able to get the best shot placement. Also, we pick those rounds because they are wounding and it will supposedly take more people out of the fight. When are they going to realize, most of the other countries or enemies that we fight, dont give a crap about their wounded. I want a round that takes them out of the fight completely. Not that there is that magic round or anything, but .45 has a lot more one stop shots then the 9mm or the .40. Just my 2 cents worth.

oh really there are numerous industry experts who would disagree......as well as every man I've been serving with

 

[the1kidd03]

I would like to see the decision left up to the soldiers. Give each soldier an allowance to buy whatever he/she wants. Say a 1000$. If they want something more expensive than their allowance they pay the rest. Make some general rules like it has to be in one of three calibers or something. If it needs to be replaced it is taken out of their pay or they can use something issued. Just a different idea. I think anyone who serves should be able to choose their weapons to some extent.

good thought, but too expensive......only more "elite" units are given choice of weapons...the rest of the grunts are given identical equipment for reasons....in case of loss or damage to a weapon, parts or other weapons can be robbed from one another if necessary....and again ammo for one caliber i far cheaper than stocking for 3

 

[the1kidd03]

the most likely will be the FN.....I've used a lot of different manufacturer weapons in the military....a good number of them from FN......the thing about the FN is that it's already widely used government contractor....has an external safety, and mag capacity requirements.....I see no need to change, but I think FN is the most likely if/when they ever do change

 

[jayhawk]

deagle