Subcompact 1911s Just don't work well....

[repeter1977]

Because you need to push your skills and equipment 200% past were you think you could be at. What if SHTF and you are stuck fighting with your carry gun to get back to your family? Can your gun get dirty and still function after 100 rounds? I like to know the limits of both myself and my equipment.

Oh, not saying that I don't bring them to the range to see what my weapons can do, but since I can't afford more then a couple hundred rounds at a time, hard to gauge where they will fail then. And I am way too OCD to ever leave dirty weapons in my house. Heck, weapons cleaning has been drilled into me that its the first thing you do after the range, so your weapon is ready to go ASAP

 

[repeter1977]

I routinely carry 63 spare mags for my EMP, all IWB. I have a size 28 waist, and I buy size 42 pants. But I am prepared!

Too awesome. Heck, you have more money invested in Lead then I have in my bank account 5 days after pay day.

 

[Ted]

he's sponsored by the m&p line of smith and wesson products. money talks boys.

Certainly he wouldn't allow the influx of compensation to corrupt his ability to present a strictly ethical opinion.

 

[Spazstick87]

I have a RRA 1911 officers model not exactly a subcompact but a much smaller firearm than the standard size. I have not had a jam or misfeed in well over 300 rds i have or my friends have shot through the pistol. Now that i say this i will prolly have one next time i go and shoot. I generally shoot a cheaper ball ammo at the range (brass cased). I also clean it every time i shoot unless its just a mag or less then i generally wipe it down well and will clean it next time i shoot it.

 

[koenig clone]

I can understand how in his eyes the gun fails. Subcompact 1911 kick like mad. That is to be expected when that much stopping power is placed in that small of a weapon. If a shooter is not familiar with the weapon or hasn't shot it much if at all, it can easily fatigue their wrist. Especially after 800 to 1000 rounds in the course of a day. That is not what the subcompact 1911s were designed to do. They were designed for deep concealment period. Master your firearm. Know how to use it. Who gives a flyin crap what anyone else says about it.

 

[Hoosier45]

he's sponsored by the m&p line of smith and wesson products. money talks boys.

I thought he was a Glock guy?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Who gives a flyin crap what anyone else says about it.

I just look at it as an opportunity for some free training

 

[Ted]

I thought he was a Glock guy?

Is he currently being paid by Glock?

 

[Hoosier45]

Is he currently being paid by Glock?

???? I read a list somewhere of instructors and what they shoot/carry. I thought he was one of the Glock guys. It could have been an old list or I may have mis-remembered.

 

[kawtech87]

Ok so in what SD scenario is anyone ever gonna shoot any more than 1 or 2 mags?

If your problems arent over by the end of the first they should be taken care of about halfway through the second. If not you may as well use the last mag to take yourself out.

I dont get to the range as much as Id like, so when I do go out I run as many rnds through my guns as I can.

Last time I took My Kimber Compact out I put over 350 rnds through it without issue. It now has almost 1k rnds through it with only a few (about 5) FTFs caused by HP ammo.

Id say 5 out of 1000 is reliable enough for me to carry.

 

[ryan3030]

Can we ban OP for inciting unrest among the populace?

 

[Wild Deuce]

Let me cut and paste what I said in the other thread ...

I think some are missing the point.

It's not about the gun being able to handle a 500 round training day or needing a rifle instead. My interpretation of Rob's point is that during a 500 round training day, the deficiencies of a particular platform (in this case ... the sub-four inch 1911 in .45 ACP) will be revealed. It doesn't matter if it happens at round 499 or round 25. It's about the training being conducted.

Those that claim 1K, 3k, or 5k strings of problem-free fire with their 3" guns need to honestly assess the training that was being done. Were all of those problem free rounds at the shooting bench? Were any of them from an awkward position? offhand? off balance? crouching? on the ground? at speed? full power defensive ammo? etc. ...

The OP's original point (and the video's) can be better understood if people stop thinking in terms of round count. It's not about a dirty or clean gun.

FORGET ROUND COUNT! He's talking about the platform and the demands made in a defensive scenario. The timing for the sub compacts as well as the form and technique of the shooter have to be flawless. I would be interested in seeing a full size 1911 take on the challenge, though.

Something tells me that the training would be rigged in favor of his prejudices.

If the shooter has the "magic talisman" of 1911's that never fail, why should it matter? He can rig it anyway he wants since a large number of detractors claim to have fired thousands of rounds in their sub-compact 1911's without a single issue ... ever. An underlying consideration in your comment is the fact that any defensive encounter is likely to be "rigged" in the assailant's favor at the onset. The question we should ask is, "Is my gun up to the task in an unfair fight?"

I can't speak for him but I would almost bet that he would agree to let you clean and lube your gun between magazines since his point is about the platform itself ... not the round count!

 

[Hondo]

Well to add a little more fuel to this fire...I too have a gen 1 ultra carry Kimber that has never had and issue.....and if you read one of the other gun forums that features Larry Vickers as a contributing author, he has just endorsed the Wilson Combat Bill Wilson Carry model after years of saying he wouldn't trust a 1911 subcompact.....

You all be the judge...I say test before you judge.....

 

[redhead]

Well need to jump in here, I have a Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II, I've ran junk steel case through it along with all the good stuff and she spits out anything with out an issue and does it well. I'd trust this gun with my life and do.

Love the 1911.

 

[Mad Anthony Wayne]

Some of this stuff is hilarious to read. What kinda SHTF scenario am I gonna run in to where I'll need 500 rounds at my disposal to get to my family?? I'll have that happen after I hit the lottery for the 2nd time and get struck by lightening the 6th or 7th time. C'mon some of you guys, Red Dawn was just a movie. The Cubans and Russians aren't going to be dropping down in parachutes while I'm going to the grocery store. If someone wants to take training and be a part of that community, that's great. But please don't justify it by trying to paint it as preparation for the asteroid, the zombies, or the Russian ground forces invasion. Just say what it is, it's your hobby and you enjoy it. Unless your making a living behind your firearm, basic pistol class (if ya didn't grow up shooting) and plenty of range time will prepare you for real life. These Internet Commandoes crack me up. Lol!...One last thing I would be cautious of; if you do ever hafta use your firearm, carrying 6,000 mags on you may be hard to explain to the local DA. Seems to make you appear as someone who is itching for a gunfight. Can you imagine how buried Zimmerman would be if they found him with between 50 and 100 magazines strapped to his body?? Two spares will get us folks home who aren't providing armed security in Afganistan. Just saying.

 

[repeter1977]

Some of this stuff is hilarious to read. What kinda SHTF scenario am I gonna run in to where I'll need 500 rounds at my disposal to get to my family?? I'll have that happen after I hit the lottery for the 2nd time and get struck by lightening the 6th or 7th time. C'mon some of you guys, Red Dawn was just a movie. The Cubans and Russians aren't going to be dropping down in parachutes while I'm going to the grocery store. If someone wants to take training and be a part of that community, that's great. But please don't justify it by trying to paint it as preparation for the asteroid, the zombies, or the Russian ground forces invasion. Just say what it is, it's your hobby and you enjoy it. Unless your making a living behind your firearm, basic pistol class (if ya didn't grow up shooting) and plenty of range time will prepare you for real life. These Internet Commandoes crack me up. Lol!...One last thing I would be cautious of; if you do ever hafta use your firearm, carrying 6,000 mags on you may be hard to explain to the local DA. Seems to make you appear as someone who is itching for a gunfight. Can you imagine how buried Zimmerman would be if they found him with between 50 and 100 magazines strapped to his body?? Two spares will get us folks home who aren't providing armed security in Afganistan. Just saying.

Thanks, I had said around the same thing. I understand pushing your firearms to see what they can do, but there are some just silly things. Im glad my glock can be frozen in a block of ice, but really, am I ever going to have break my Glock out of a block of ice to shoot it, or off of a sandy beach? or the million other things. Im glad to see that it still works and its the industry standard just about for functioning, but sometimes good enough is really good enough. All of the pistols that I fire go to the range and I will shoot 200 through them in one session and not have any problems. I figure if I can run a firearm like that, then should be good for most anything in the states.
After all, if you really want to run your gun until it fails, then I would say, go out in the gravel, throw your gun on it, run it over with every vehicle that you can, and even get a garbage truck to run it over, cause, it could happen in real life too, and then make sure it still works.

 

[Spazstick87]

That is not what the subcompact 1911s were designed to do. They were designed for deep concealment period. Master your firearm. Know how to use it. Who gives a flyin crap what anyone else says about it.

I agree with you we should just master our own weapons and ignore the rest or at least take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Wild Deuce]

ahem ... excuse me ... Did anyone catch what I said? ... The point being made in the video has NOTHING TO DO WITH ROUND COUNT.

 

[calcot7]

Say what?

Too awesome. Heck, you have more money invested in Lead then I have in my bank account 5 days after pay day.

This is a joke, right?
Also, my first smilies.

 

[jurassicnarc]

Having read all of the foregoing with interest and a great deal of hilarity, I think I have the gist of the argument. However, being a true dinosaur (my son is a retiree and I enjoy my great grandchildren), I have no idea what OC,CC,RO,SD, and OP mean. Never the less, I will tell you that I own a Wilson, enjoy it, but if I "limp Wrist" it, it will jam. I am blessed enough in my old age to carry anything my heart desires. I carry a S&W 640 in .357, to buy me time to get to the .44 in the console. I have even had a revolver jam when covered in blood and some tissue, but for all intents and purposes they're foolproof. Nothing made by the hand of man is perfect, but betting on the second round of any semiauto... You get my drift. Practice, practice, pull maintenance and then go ahead and bet the ranch when the (?) SHTF