GUN BUYBACK!!!

[trapperDave]

sounds like he was illegally disarmed, detained for an hour while they tried to trump up some BS charge, which apparently they were unable to do, and then let free.

LAWSUIT

 

[jdmack79]

I will be making a detailed post shortly. It was quite a morning. I managed to walk away without so much as a boot mark on my head.

....full story soon

 

[trapperDave]

anxiously awaiting

 

[churchmouse]

Police only need "reasonable suspicion" to detain, per SCOTUS.

I can see by your post you have not dealt with the LEO in these situations. If you had you would look at this through a more realistic set of eyes. No knock on your beliefs.
Please do no preach about the right and wrong of it as we all know in these threads what is what. I am sure you are correct in what you are saying. Now, lets apply it to the streets. If LEO feels threatened (long line of cars and everyone has a gun) they will cuff you for their own safety and that in itself is not a litigating situation. You will be ran through the system and the result of that search coupled with what ever you were doing to gain the attention of said LEO will determine the rest of your weekend and possibly your life. Why taunt them. Why test them. They are in charge of the show and it will be their rules as always. This is not a slam on LEO so lets not go there please.
It is just not a wise idea to go out in public to buy a freaking gun when LEO is everywhere. Hello....McFly.....hello.

I am glad this young man was released and now he is a hero. It could have gone the other way very easily.

Edit...Ted, I quoted the wrong thread...please disregard towards you sir. I was responding to liberty sanders. You are correct...they do not have rights but do have authority.

 

[trapperDave]

why then werent all the others there with guns for sale detained,cuffed and ran thru the system? for officer safety of course

 

[churchmouse]

why then werent all the others there with guns for sale detained,cuffed and ran thru the system? for officer safety of course

Really.....They were not outside trying to purchase guns. Seriously....come on.

 

[actaeon277]

I can see by your post you have not dealt with the LEO in these situations. If you had you would look at this through a more realistic set of eyes. No knock on your beliefs.
Please do no preach about the right and wrong of it as we all know in these threads what is what. I am sure you are correct in what you are saying. Now, lets apply it to the streets. If LEO feels threatened (long line of cars and everyone has a gun) they will cuff you for their own safety and that in itself is not a litigating situation. You will be ran through the system and the result of that search coupled with what ever you were doing to gain the attention of said LEO will determine the rest of your weekend and possibly your life. Why taunt them. Why test them. They are in charge of the show and it will be their rules as always. This is not a slam on LEO so lets not go there please.
It is just not a wise idea to go out in public to buy a freaking gun when LEO is everywhere. Hello....McFly.....hello.

I am glad this young man was released and now he is a hero. It could have gone the other way very easily.

Edit...Ted, I quoted the wrong thread...please disregard towards you sir. I was responding to liberty sanders. You are correct...they do not have rights but do have authority.

If they feel that threatened, maybe gun buyback programs should be banned.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why taunt them. Why test them.

I don't know if there was any taunting in the fact pattern but both the Indiana Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court have held that is free speech.

It is just not a wise idea to go out in public to buy a freaking gun when LEO is everywhere.

Why not conduct lawful commerce in front of the police?

I do it every Indy 1500.

They were not outside trying to purchase guns

How is that a crime worthy of investigation?

 

[trapperDave]

Really.....They were not outside trying to purchase guns. Seriously....come on.

is that a crime? do I need to make sure all purchases are done indoors? really now

 

[bubba16430]

Churchmouse, half your post in this thread are full of FAIL but keep posting so i can keep laughing. ty

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I can see by your post you have not dealt with the LEO in these situations. If you had you would look at this through a more realistic set of eyes. No knock on your beliefs.
Please do no preach about the right and wrong of it as we all know in these threads what is what. I am sure you are correct in what you are saying. Now, lets apply it to the streets. If LEO feels threatened (long line of cars and everyone has a gun) they will cuff you for their own safety and that in itself is not a litigating situation. You will be ran through the system and the result of that search coupled with what ever you were doing to gain the attention of said LEO will determine the rest of your weekend and possibly your life. Why taunt them. Why test them. They are in charge of the show and it will be their rules as always. This is not a slam on LEO so lets not go there please.
It is just not a wise idea to go out in public to buy a freaking gun when LEO is everywhere. Hello....McFly.....hello.

I am glad this young man was released and now he is a hero. It could have gone the other way very easily.

Edit...Ted, I quoted the wrong thread...please disregard towards you sir. I was responding to liberty sanders. You are correct...they do not have rights but do have authority.

Did you read what I wrote? I used to BE the LEO in these situations!!

There is NO constitutional standard authorizing the police to handcuff anyone "for their own safety." Do they do it? Yes, they do. Do they commit a grotesque constitutional violation when they do so? YES, they do. Can they get their institutional asses kicked for it in court? YES, they can.

The LAW states that they may detain a citizen when they have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the citizen has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

NO LEO has the authority to stop and detain a citizen on the suspicion that the citizen is standing on a street corner, and your lack of understanding of this country's most basic constitutional principles thankfully does nothing to change that.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If IMPD thinks they can intimidate protestors, I think it just backfired.

I foresee organized counter-buys with cameras and flyers in the future.

 

[Ted]

I will be making a detailed post shortly. It was quite a morning. I managed to walk away without so much as a boot mark on my head.

....full story soon

I didn't take my eyes off you the entire time.

 

[churchmouse]

is that a crime? do I need to make sure all purchases are done indoors? really now

OK fellas...you are all so worldly I will just say....yes, the law says this....today the authority did that. Is it right, hell no it isn't...did it happen, well yes. Did you expect anything different. I did not. I knew someone was going to be made example of when the stupid idea of buying those guns came up and by his posts it was going to be him. It was a bad freaking idea period. Spout all the law you wish, give all the examples of those who pushed back and actually won.
How many of you have been in his position. Actually cuffed and waiting to be judged at the curb. It is and always will be their way. He will have his day in court if charges were pressed and that is a crap shoot as well.
I just said it was a bad idea and was proven correct. That is all and no more.
Put down the flame throwers, I am on "Our" side. I just do not choose to taunt the authority's for something as stupid as this.

 

[churchmouse]

Did you read what I wrote? I used to BE the LEO in these situations!!

There is NO constitutional standard authorizing the police to handcuff anyone "for their own safety." Do they do it? Yes, they do. Do they commit a grotesque constitutional violation when they do so? YES, they do. Can they get their institutional asses kicked for it in court? YES, they can.

The LAW states that they may detain a citizen when they have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the citizen has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

NO LEO has the authority to stop and detain a citizen on the suspicion that the citizen is standing on a street corner, and your lack of understanding of this country's most basic constitutional principles thankfully does nothing to change that.

Really, do not be that guy. You are directing fire at me and it serves no purpose. I understand my rights as I have been the guy un-lawfully detained and I know how hard it is to un-ravel all the crap that comes from people covering the butts and mis-directing the facts. Read my post. Simply said, A bad idea right or wrong. Lawfully done, doubt it. Should he have been there...not really as it could not have gone any differently.
Lacking in knowledge...no, not really. Just a realist. Nuff said.

Direct your anger towards something that makes sense please. I am on "Our" side.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Churchmouse, i am guessing he knew he would likely be accosted by the police and took that risk. You advice was on how to not be accosted. Your statements have moved past the initial: "this will go bad" to "police will always do this and there's nothing we can do" to paraphrase.

If we hold on to our rights maybe we can keep them. If you repeatedly give them up then they are gone

 

[Jake46184]

The adults in the room are always entertained when kids go looking for trouble, get trouble, and then whine about getting trouble.

A kid drives all the way from Terre Haute to blatantly taunt the police at an advertised gun buy-back and you, somehow, blame the cops? Grow up, people. This kind of nonsense is exactly the kind of things the left uses to constantly beat the drum that says that none of us should have guns.

Going there with a sign to solicit transactions to buy guns, at their event, is stupid. Period. Responsible gun owners are glad he got to sit handcuffed for an hour. Perhaps he will show a bit more maturity before he does something as stupid the next time.

 

[Ted]

Did you read what I wrote? I used to BE the LEO in these situations!!

There is NO constitutional standard authorizing the police to handcuff anyone "for their own safety." Do they do it? Yes, they do. Do they commit a grotesque constitutional violation when they do so? YES, they do. Can they get their institutional asses kicked for it in court? YES, they can.

The LAW states that they may detain a citizen when they have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the citizen has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

NO LEO has the authority to stop and detain a citizen on the suspicion that the citizen is standing on a street corner, and your lack of understanding of this country's most basic constitutional principles thankfully does nothing to change that.

With respect to your statement that there isn't a constitutional standard that allow the handcuffing a suspect, there is more than ample case law which doesn't support your statement.

You are correct that LE doesn't have authority to stop and detain for no criminal suspicion. So now explain to me how you or I are to know that there is or isn't any legitimate criminal suspicion? Wouldn't that be a determination of fact for a judge or jury to ascertain?

 

[Miketodd]

I can't wait to read his account. My wife and I discussed this at length yesterday. She said that she doesn't believe that they gun buy backs work, but if you go down there to try to purchase, you are asking for trouble.

 

[churchmouse]

Churchmouse, i am guessing he knew he would likely be accosted by the police and took that risk. You advice was on how to not be accosted. Your statements have moved past the initial: "this will go bad" to "police will always do this and there's nothing we can do" to paraphrase.

If we hold on to our rights maybe we can keep them. If you repeatedly give them up then they are gone

Agree 100%. I am just to a point that I choose my battles. He chose this one and it came out exactly as I thought it would. Sadly. I am glad he was released.

How then do we overcome such things.