Educating Law Enforcement on carry laws

[Salvation]

Just curious if there is any avenues for educating Law enforcement on the carry laws on Indiana WITHOUT it being considered a "confrontation"?

Two departments in my area have officers that are unaware that OC is legal with your LTCH. One even refered to the Indiana permit as a CCW.

I realize this may be wishful thinking but it would be nice for encounters with LEO's to be more cordial than they seem to be currently.

Kevin

 

[Double T]

Send an email to the shift supervisor, and the chief/sheriff.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[CathyInBlue]

Forget about it. They are uneducatable. You have to do it through the department as a whole, and the only way to force the department to retrain their officers is via IC 35-47-11.1 and a court of law.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Here's my idea, I think someone with better grammar should do it though.
Type up a page or two with all the IC's on it, highlighting all the important things, Silent on OC, after a valid LTCH is presented all firearms questioning is to stop..etc. Mail a copy to every county sheriff and CoP.
I remember a year or two ago there was a campaign to mail Sheriff Joe's (i think this is who it was)book to all Sheriff's in the state. I think there was one person maybe a few in charge of it, I think they were accepting donations for the cost of postage.

 

[Backyardace]

I spoke to a Muncie police officer recently and he wasn't aware of the changes made to the law regarding transporting a firearm in your vehicle.
I have considered carrying a copy, just in case.

 

[2A_Tom]

Every encounter with law enforcement should be very cordial. That is as much your responsibility as theirs.

Me: Good day officer. May I help you?
Off: Do you know that it is illegal in Indiana to openly display a handgun, and do you have a Concealed Carry Permit.
Me: No sir. I do have an Indiana License to Cary a Handgun and according to the Indiana State Police FAQ it is legal with a LTCH to carry either open or concealed.
Off: I can arrest you.
Me: For what, Sir.
Off: For having a gun.
Me: Sir, I do have a license.
Off: Let me see it.
Me: Here it is Officer, but, I am presenting this this under protest.
Off: Why under protest.
Me: indiana Code does not give you the right to check my LTCH, in fact it is not a requirement to carry it.
Off: donkt be a smarta**. You are carrying a pistol that gives me Reasonable Suspicion to investigate.
Me: Sir are you aware that in Washington v. Indiana the Court of Appeals said thet the mere presence of handgun is not enough to support Reasonable Suspicion. Sir, am I free to go?
Off: Yes you are.
Me: Thank you Officer. Have a good day.

BTW : Start your recorder at the onset if the encounter.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Forget about it. They are uneducatable. You have to do it through the department as a whole, and the only way to force the department to retrain their officers is via IC 35-47-11.1 and a court of law.

Irony in action...

 

[Denny347]

Uneducable

 

[Indy317]

Me: .... are you aware that in Washington v. Indiana the Court of Appeals said thet the mere presence of handgun is not enough to support Reasonable Suspicion.

Only in the dreams of some. More like Washington v. Indiana said that mere presence of a bulge, while stopping a person under the seat belt enforcement act, doesn't give reasonable suspicion to investigate for a crime of carrying w/o a license.

 

[CathyInBlue]

You're thinking Johnson, not Washington.

 

[Indy317]

You're thinking Johnson, not Washington.

OK, thanks. Where does this case state "the mere presence of handgun is not enough to support Reasonable Suspicion?" Here is the Washington ruling I believe you are speaking about:

www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03041001jsk.pdf

 

[Rookie]

Link didn't work...

 

[CathyInBlue]

You might be thinking Malone as well. MALONE v. STATE, No.

And I mistyped when I said Johnson. I, myself, was thinking Richardson. That's the one with the "large bulge" in the pants.

 

[woowoo2]

Me: Here it is Officer, but, I am presenting this this under protest.
Off: Why under protest.
Me: indiana Code does not give you the right to check my LTCH, in fact it is not a requirement to carry it.

This part is not correct.

 

[stephen87]

Every encounter with law enforcement should be very cordial. That is as much your responsibility as theirs.

Me: Good day officer. May I help you?
Off: Do you know that it is illegal in Indiana to openly display a handgun, and do you have a Concealed Carry Permit.
Me: No sir. I do have an Indiana License to Cary a Handgun and according to the Indiana State Police FAQ it is legal with a LTCH to carry either open or concealed.
Off: I can arrest you.
Me: For what, Sir.
Off: For having a gun.
Me: Sir, I do have a license.
Off: Let me see it.
Me: Here it is Officer, but, I am presenting this this under protest.
Off: Why under protest.
Me: indiana Code does not give you the right to check my LTCH, in fact it is not a requirement to carry it.
Off: donkt be a smarta**. You are carrying a pistol that gives me Reasonable Suspicion to investigate.
Me: Sir are you aware that in Washington v. Indiana the Court of Appeals said thet the mere presence of handgun is not enough to support Reasonable Suspicion. Sir, am I free to go?
Off: Yes you are.
Me: Thank you Officer. Have a good day.

BTW : Start your recorder at the onset if the encounter.

It would moat likely not go that way at all. Washington vs. State of Indiana says that once a LTCH is produced all inquiries to the handgun must stop. Richardson vs. State of Indiana says that a bulge cannot be reasonable cause to search a person for weapons. Indiana Code says that carrying a handgun is illegal unless exempted by way of LTCH. You can protest all you want, but fact of the matter is that visibly seeing a handgun is reasonable cause, but once you produce your LTCH the investigation is over. If they start harassing you about "Indiana is a concealed state," or anything of the sorts, ask for a name, badge number, and if you wish a supervisor to sort the mess out. Eighty percent of police out there are good people and just may not be aware of the law and, as such, should be educated appropriately. Remember, everyone here is an ambassador for gun owners everywhere. If you give incorrect info or become irrate or belligerent, some officers will start to believe all gun owners are that way. Just remember, keep your cool, know your stuff, and educate properly.

 

[rw496]

Forget about it. They are uneducatable. You have to do it through the department as a whole, and the only way to force the department to retrain their officers is via IC 35-47-11.1 and a court of law.

That's a pretty cynical generalization..maybe try many or most

 

[looney2ns]

Just curious if there is any avenues for educating Law enforcement on the carry laws on Indiana WITHOUT it being considered a "confrontation"?

Two departments in my area have officers that are unaware that OC is legal with your LTCH. One even refered to the Indiana permit as a CCW.

I realize this may be wishful thinking but it would be nice for encounters with LEO's to be more cordial than they seem to be currently.

Kevin

Invite the local sherriff or police chief out for lunch. Have a prepared well thought out lesson planned. Have handouts to give them with the proper IC's and court case's listed. Be cool calm and collected. If we do nothing, nothing will change.

You might even make a new friend.

 

[2A_Tom]

Wrong washington

MelvinWashington v. State of idiana No. 49A02- 0907-CR-649

One thing I have found is that when you google legal citations, make sure that what you are reading is NOT a synopsys that I or anyone else has posted.

If you dig you can find the Court record and KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE COURT PUBLISHED.

 

[Salvation]

I appreciate all the info so far! I am currently typing up a "quick reference guide" with the intent of offering it to local LEO's. If anyone is interested in helping me with it, it would be much appreciated. While I have found most of the IC codes concerning the topic any court cases, like the one Blue falcon posted, that my help LEO's be more aware of legal carry in Indiana would REALLY be helpful.

Kevin