mag ban by boone co sheriff

[Litlratt]

No I highly doubt the concerted effert to skew the results. Ken campbell does not operate that way.

Regardless of how he operates, there was plenty of room in the video for argument.
I realize he doesn't have any control of the pace in which the targets were shot, but he should have had control of the order in which they were shot, the number of rounds shot prior to a reload and where the magazines were obtained from.
Are you are under the impression that those variables couldn't/didn't skew the results?

 

[mShu7]

I just noticed for some reason they did not shoot to slide stop on any of the reload portions. They also fired odd numbered shots during some of the reloads portions. Not bashing on the video by any means I just don't understand why they did the review like that. It really won't change the times any if at all. They had to
have been counting their shots. That in and of it's self isn't an easy task when running the clock and attempting to get hits. Outstanding video though.

Someone I sent the video to wrote back:

I found it very interesting that the shooter was counting his shots and changing the clip before he fired the last round from the previous clip except on the last one.

This avoided having to jack one into the chamber. Wonder if the average shooter would think to do it that way. Very wise move.

 

[bigg cheese]

Bottom line, if it's possible for a bad guy to skew anything in his favor, we should expect that he will.

and last, I had never heard "new york reload" -- that's hilarious .

 

[j706]

Bottom line, if it's possible for a bad guy to skew anything in his favor, we should expect that he will.

and last, I had never heard "new york reload" -- that's hilarious .

I have heard of the new york reload. Old school stuff before the inundation of high cap pistols.

 

[drillsgt]

Never heard of not shooting until slide lock unless there is a lull where one can do a tactical reload retaining the removed mag.

Exactly, cross gunsite off the list.

 

[j706]

Regardless of how he operates, there was plenty of room in the video for argument.
I realize he doesn't have any control of the pace in which the targets were shot, but he should have had control of the order in which they were shot, the number of rounds shot prior to a reload and where the magazines were obtained from.
Are you are under the impression that those variables couldn't/didn't skew the results?

I get what your saying. Even though it would change the times by a very small amount I think the times would all be statistically the same between each string for each given example. But yes a slidestop mag change and with a mag being retrieved from ones person would eliminate any potential for controversy.

Still I think is was a good demonstration especially for the gun ignorant. You know the ones that need educated.

 

[45fan]

I have heard of the new york reload. Old school stuff before the inundation of high cap pistols.

The New York reload is even more effective when combined with high cap magazines

Its not the only reason I tend to carry a back up when I have my J frame, but it is one of them. I am much more comfortable using my J frame as an initial defense, followed my my main carry gun. I will stop to reload the revolver as a last resort, as its a little more involved than a gun/mag change.

 

[kludge]

This can backfire... "If 10 and 6 round magazines are just as fast as a 15 round magazine, what do you have against banning 15 and 30 round magazines?"

It does show however that it won't affect in any way how many shots a deranged psychopath can shoot in a given time period... especially when it takes the cops 15-20 minutes to show up.

ETA: I also love how he pulls the trigger faster with the 10 round magazines.

 

[avboiler11]

Here's one way to think about this:

Doing a mag swap with the last round in the chamber (rather than waiting to slide lock) provides a worst-case scenario, IE fastest time to fire X number of bullets, regardless of magazine capacity.

Doing this method with an experienced shooter, then a novice, isn't perfect but it DOES provide consistency in the results.

The only thing I could see is firing at a single target until slide lock THEN doing a mag change might allow someone rushing you to get a little bit closer...but hitting the slide release takes almost no time so its basically negligible IMO.

Perhaps a more accurate/realistic test would be somebody who shoots until empty/slide lock, then has to pull a spare magazine from a jeans or coat pocket and reload instead of picking it up from an elevated platform like that barrel. In this instance, IF the shooter fumbled getting the spare magazine AND the person rushing them was quick, I could possibly see intervention working.

Then again, that's to say nothing of someone rushing a reloading shooter having a weapon or distraction like a chair, hot cup of coffee, etc.

Its definitely not a "perfect" video...but IMO it conveys the point in a a fairly objective method. The only way to "proof" it would be a MUCH larger scale test with proficient shooters, mild hobbyists, and novices alike.

 

[fallenangel1]

I get what your saying. Even though it would change the times by a very small amount I think the times would all be statistically the same between each string for each given example. But yes a slidestop mag change and with a mag being retrieved from ones person would eliminate any potential for controversy.

Still I think is was a good demonstration especially for the gun ignorant. You know the ones that need educated.

I think some people dont read an entire thread . it's not just the reloading .. or where the mags are placed. Which are both factors that need to be taken into account but also the shooters pace along with how they are acquiring the targets. Now this is somewhat irrelevant when youre only caring about how long the reload takes. But They arent timing just a reload they are timing the whole exercise and by showing that one can fire 3x10rd mags faster than 2x15 rd mags is somewhat misleading to the general public.

Bottom line, the thought behind the video is good. We need more people doing stuff like this. But for statistical purposes this video is worthless and in the right anti-gunners hands could be harmful to our cause.

 

[TRWXXA]

The only thing I could see is firing at a single target until slide lock THEN doing a mag change might allow someone rushing you to get a little bit closer...but hitting the slide release takes almost no time so its basically negligible IMO.

I'm going to channel Sheriff Campbell on this one...

"It is a slide lock, NOT a slide release."
(<whispers> Although my HK USP manual says "slide release".)

I'm not picking a fight here. He hits that point pretty hard in his classes.

The correct way to release the slide is to pull it back to disengage the lock, then release the slide. When done with your whole hand, and opposing muscle groups in your arms, it is very easy. And very fast. It's the difference between a fine motor skill (pressing a small lever with your thumb) and a gross motor skill (racking the slide with your hand and arms).

Critics can add 0.2 seconds for each mag change to the demostration times, if it makes you feel better.

 

[rhino]

Analysis of the minutiae of the techniques employed, this video is about showing people who believe what the popular news media and their politicians tell them. They can see with their own eyes a demonstration proving at least once exception to the lies they've been told, so clearly they are believing lies. That's the point. I think it's going to be effective at illustrating that point, which is far more important to convey to voters than the details of how and when someone should reload if they have a choice.

 

[fallenangel1]

Analysis of the minutiae of the techniques employed, this video is about showing people who believe what the popular news media and their politicians tell them. They can see with their own eyes a demonstration proving at least once exception to the lies they've been told, so clearly they are believing lies. That's the point. I think it's going to be effective at illustrating that point, which is far more important to convey to voters than the details of how and when someone should reload if they have a choice.

While I agree with you and as stated appreciate the efforts in making the video .. If an intelligent anti-gunner saw this video and saw that people were actually thinking and gaining knowledge and realizing that 2x 15rd mags isn't all that much different than 3x 10 rd mags. All that they would have to do is start pointing out the inconsistencies within the video and then it starts looking rigged and people don't like feeling like they were lied to or mislead (unless they are lies that they want to believe .. silly sheep) so just based on that they could disregard any info that may have been taken from the video and to some extent it also makes it look like were trying to hide the truth or skew the facts to get what we want.

 

[MikeDVB]

While I agree with you and as stated appreciate the efforts in making the video .. If an intelligent anti-gunner saw this video and saw that people were actually thinking and gaining knowledge and realizing that 2x 15rd mags isn't all that much different than 3x 10 rd mags. All that they would have to do is start pointing out the inconsistencies within the video and then it starts looking rigged and people don't like feeling like they were lied to or mislead (unless they are lies that they want to believe .. silly sheep) so just based on that they could disregard any info that may have been taken from the video and to some extent it also makes it look like were trying to hide the truth or skew the facts to get what we want.

Even if the video was created in a laboratory environment under the latest and strictest standards - they'll still find some way to pick it apart or they just ignore it.

I've had long and drawn-out conversations with a few who consider themselves liberal and any time I presented statistics contrary to their beliefs/emotions they simply ignored them. When asked to refute them, they would respond with something as simple as "I refute them," and nothing more.

At the end of the day if somebody chooses to blindly believe something, they are doing so blindly even if their eyes are open. You could put correct and factual information that differs from their blind beliefs in front of their face all day long and they will see none of it.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

And those targets had ....

.... HOW many holes in them??? Also just thinking that a faster rate-of-fire from the longer magazined gun could be due to a better grip.

 

[Mark 1911]

I applaud Sheriff Campbell. The problem with solid logic like the good Sheriff's, is that it is not politically expedient.

 

[terrehautian]

After watching the video last night, I sent him an email thanking him for his video.

I sent

I am not from Boone Co, but know my local sheriff does not agree with either part of proposed gun legislation. I would like to know that people that are proposing gun legislation know a thing or two about guns, but I believe they know next to nothing on laws they propose. I find it extremely sad that they would also parade around victims of gun crimes to push for these laws. The media also plays a part, I have seen multiply stories with 95% of the story being anti gun and a very small part being pro. No one seems to want to do a story on pro gun stuff it seems anymore.

He replied

[FONT=&quot]Thank you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our goal was to make this available to educate policy makers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ken Campbell

[/FONT]

 

[j706]

While I agree with you and as stated appreciate the efforts in making the video .. If an intelligent anti-gunner saw this video and saw that people were actually thinking and gaining knowledge and realizing that 2x 15rd mags isn't all that much different than 3x 10 rd mags. All that they would have to do is start pointing out the inconsistencies within the video and then it starts looking rigged and people don't like feeling like they were lied to or mislead (unless they are lies that they want to believe .. silly sheep) so just based on that they could disregard any info that may have been taken from the video and to some extent it also makes it look like were trying to hide the truth or skew the facts to get what we want.

Intelligent antigunner? I have never heard of that.

 

[dlbrown75]

I live in Henry County. I want our sheriff, Butch Baker, to stand up like sheriff Brad Rogers and this guy.

 

[Burnsy]

No I highly doubt the concerted effert to skew the results. Ken campbell does not operate that way.

Intended or not. It did conveniently happen and was included in the results. Don't get me wrong. No new laws. NONE. NO. But they did clearly shoot faster every time a new mag change was added.

I have several anti's on my facebook list. I post quite a few things pro gun and we debate the points. I will not post this, it would get shredded. If the point were to time the reloads I could defend it. That is not the case though, they are comparing total time for shots fired and it's a clear difference in trigger time to make up for mag changes.