Home Defense and Kids...

[RobbyMaQ]

I have to be honest, I had not thought of keeping the lockbox unlocked during the night, until this thread. Thanks guys!

 

[VERT]

I think if we had young kids around I'd have to figure out a different plan, but since we don't my HD weapons are all loaded and easily accessible.

You expressed concern about criminals seeing your car and being curious about what is in it, or in the house. Can you put your police cruiser in the garage, instead of visible in the driveway?

I would be more worried about the car not being at home. Car not home means OP is at work. Thieves are cowards and looking for an easy score. Many will not risk armed confronatation with a LEO. Keeping the police car in the garage is a good idea. Of course who parks the company car in the garage and leaves their car out?

I have to be honest, I had not thought of keeping the lockbox unlocked during the night, until this thread. Thanks guys!

Trick is remembering to close it in the morning. That is why I put my wallet in the safe when open. Grab wallet, close safe, form a habit.

 

[Hohn]

My 2 boys are 6 months and 3 years...Ive been a police officer for a few years, and just transfered from nights to days, so Im home each night. Ive always been cool to those I come into contact during duty, so Im not worried about retaliation...more worried that my squad car that is parked outside.

Cops have alot of tools/gear, and to the criminal mind...I can see them either intrigued with whats inside a cops house or deterred. I also know burglaries in the day are pretty mellow in fashion ( they expect no one to be home)...but if one happens at night, they expect violence and expect home-owner to be home. Night time proves more violence and wreckless in nature.

I have shelves in my closet, and on the highest one is my HD pistol. Presently, it is not in a safe, theres a mag inserted, not one in the chamber. I want to put the pistol in the safe, and have my 870 for HD. Both have lights attached, and I love them both, but something is pulling me towards the 870 for worst case scenario (would not will not store with one in the chamber).

From experience in USMC/Iraq and throughout my LEO career...I know that when things cook off, they cook off fast. Training creates muscle memory, tactics, techniques, procedures, habits, and Ive fallen back on these when needed more often than not...

Long story as short as I can:

I just dont feel Id have time to go to the safe, time to get between the boys and home-invader, call for help (do have an alarm for help there).

Is this a training issue? Are there others that dont have their HD weapon in a safe due to the speed that things go bad fast and fear you couldnt/wouldnt get to it in time?

Here's how I addressed my similar concerns:

https://www.ftknox.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=54

I have this on the floor next to my bed. I reach down and have it open in less than 2 seconds and have my G20 ready to investigate to see if anyone needs some attention.

This was the best compromise of security and rapid accessibility that I could find after LOTS of scouring.

Hope this helps--
H

 

[Hohn]

Taking all of the mystery out of it has really been the biggest factor.

This is key, I think ^^. No Mystery. No curiosity. Kids that are exposed to guns early and often in the way that Cat Herder has done tend to grow be SAFE kids-- and responsible future gun owners.

Well done, Cat Herder.

 

[obijohn]

This is key, I think ^^. No Mystery. No curiosity. Kids that are exposed to guns early and often in the way that Cat Herder has done tend to grow be SAFE kids-- and responsible future gun owners.

Well done, Cat Herder.

Agreed. My experience teaching families and children, not always firearms btw, has been that a child's curiosity must be satisfied in a controlled and age appropriate manner. Young minds are constantly exploring the world around them. Satisfy the immediate curiosity and it's on to the next thing, current thing forgotten for the time being.

 

[dnurk]

I have one of these in our bedroom

It has been flawless for me since I bought it years ago.

Unless you can guarantee that no neighbor kids, friends/family with kids, or ANY child other than your own will never be in your house...guns have to be locked up.

Educating my 6 year old has been an ongoing priority for years, but it isn't him I'm concerned about when I lock up my weapons.

 

[squidvt]

I have one of these in our bedroom

It has been flawless for me since I bought it years ago.

Unless you can guarantee that no neighbor kids, friends/family with kids, or ANY child other than your own will never be in your house...guns have to be locked up.

Educating my 6 year old has been an ongoing priority for years, but it isn't him I'm concerned about when I lock up my weapons.

I agree with you that when your weapon is not under your control and there are younger children around it should be locked up. There is a difference between educating your children with safe firearms handling and not teaching them how to be safe. Personally I prefer my son to know how to properly deal with firearms when I'm not around. I also want him to be self-assured that he will not harm himself or another if he followed the rules of being around firearms.

Taking the mystery out of something and laying the foundation for behavior helps your children when they are not around you.

 

[CitiusFortius]

Kids are curious by nature. Concerns are warranted.
My kids are all adults now and own/carry.
My HD pieces are not in the safe but are out of sight. My 6 year old Grand daughter spends a lot of time with us as she lives next door. She understands guns as we are getting her involved with pellet rifle and soon a cricket. She sees all of us handling and carrying so she is not so curious.

That's really dangerous, I really, honestly hope I don't read a news article about you.

OP - Kids change things. You can't go to the movies anymore, restaurants are a challenge, and you HAVE to lock your guns up. To leave it high on a shelf, especially the way kids can climb is inviting an accident.

I have a 1 1/2 year old boy, they're all locked up. 1 in a quick-combo safe in my night stand with the big guns in a big safe upstairs.

And to people who say "just expose them to guns and they won't be curious" is a load of bullcrap. LOCK 'EM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'll chime in on the gunvault brand. I have two. One for each place I typically hang out whether asleep or awake. I keep mine fully loaded with one in the pipe ready to fire, but locked up.

Top that of with a long gun safe to keep the guns I dont NEED to have at the ready locked up (with ammo locked up separately under a different key for good measure).


And to reinforce cat-herder... I have the same rule. My 6YO has expressed an interest and he knows if he wants we can handle them at any time with my help, but otherwise they are off limits. I NEVER say no. After all, why would I turn down the opportunity to properly "coonfinger" a firearm?

 

[99zhuggerz99]

Similar situation your facing OP. I recently just installed a gunvailt speedvault between nightstand and bed. bump in the night factor I have have pistol out and ready in a few seconds, yet is hidden from view and locked. as you say when things escalate they do so very quickly. the pistol is not primary, it is simply first. Grab pistol, divide family from entry point, go for back up. the pistol gives you the security of a chance to make it to your 870. thats my thoughts and thats how I set up.

 

[shootamc58]

I have a 8yo boy and a 2yo girl. I have hd handgun on a nightstand in a quick release biometric safe that is battery with a plug in backup. I also have a benelli m4 in the safe. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a shotgun anywhere that my son could possibly get. He is very comfortable around guns as I have spent countless hours talking and showing him safety. That being said, If he had access to an unlocked gun and something happened I'd never forgive myself. Don't ever underestimate the curiosity of a young child. It would only take one fleeting moment of curiosity and excitement to undo years of safety training. I've told my son a thousand times to use a napkin and he still wipes things on his pants. Bad example, but you get the point. One thing to think of as well is what happens when their friends come over and vice versa. I wouldn't want a firearm accesable and a kid without the knowledge my son has getting near it. The problems with someone else's kid even seeing a gun and then telling their parents about it would potentially cause an issue. That is a conversation I don't care to have with another parent.

 

[teejay422]

I have a daughter who will be four next month, she is not afraid of firearms, but has a high respect for them. She even has an AR-15 that she knows will be hers one day, but seems content with waiting. The serial number is her birth date, and I look forward to handing it down to her when she is old enough. I feel exposure, and positive exposure is the key. We have not been shooting yet, but she has helped me clean (disassembled) the AR and my carry weapon. Under my bed there is a Mossberg 500 locked and loaded for HD in a sock sleeve. I can access it quick, and know where the safety is even without removing the sleeve, and can still work the action. I do not fear her getting into it at this point because neither her, or my weapons are out of my sight at the same time. If a home invasion goes down, I can be at the ready, maybe not dressed, within seconds. If I feel I have the time, sleeve would come off to expose the flashlight and I would be waiting in the hallway for the intruder. The fiancee is on board that her role would be to hide with my daughter and my carry pistol in the bathroom and, if necessary (say I go down fighting) take action. Obviously, your plan would need to suit your family and capabilities, but I say having one in place is the first step. As my daughter gets older, and her and her friends come and go, things may change. But, for now I am confident that things are as safe as they can be.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Not going to preach Teejay, but I'd STRONGLY suggest you reconsider the VERY accessible shotty. I used to do that before I had kids. Not anymore. all it takes is a few moments for something bad to happen.

 

[Ryno300]

I had this same debate years ago...I could never come up with a ready and accessible long gun solution. Considered hanging it by hooks inside the closet up above the door without one in the chamber, but I still couldn't feel comfortable. For years now I have used a handgun safe that has a touch pad and a key. The touch pad can be tricky so each night I place the key in the lock, but I don't open the safe. HD firearms are loaded and ready inside. Every morning before taking a shower the first thing I do is pull the key out. It goes in a drawer under the sink while I'm in the shower otherwise it's on me at all times - home and away - unless it's in the lock on the safe at night. With practice and a routine you'd be surprise how quickly you can access your firearms from it. Be safe.

 

[Spike_351]

my dad had a simple saying when I was young....he pointed and said " you see that gun, don't touch it" I didn't test my dads patients very much. Had I touched that gun I would probably still be trying to figure out how to remove his boot from my ass. He did however take other times to teach me but if he wasn't there and I didn't have his permission I was in some deep ****.

 

[Hohn]

I think I may have left my previous post partially incomplete. I firmly believe in exposing kids to guns in an age-appropriate manner.

But the main reason for that exposure is to minimize the desire to find a way into your SECURE storage location.

It is *NOT*-- repeat NOT-- a substitute for physical security. The physical securing of firearms away from the immature or incompetent is non-negotiable, imo. Period.

Is it likely that he second or two you gain having the gun unsecured relative to a quick-access solution (like the GunVault or Ft Knox products indicated above) will be the determinant if you live or die? MORE likely than whether or not the physical security of the firearms will be decisive in preventing an AD/ND in the hands of an innocent or curious kid?

IMO, the answer to that is a resounding "no".

My kids know that Dad's gun is only for grownups and they NEVER touch. But I still lock it up, and always will.


If the only way to secure a gun was a padlock with a lost key, it might be arguable that security is trumped by accessibility.

But with products on the market that don't require you to choose, I see no case to be made for forfeiting physical security of some kind.

We'll spend thousands of dollars on our kids feeding them and clothing them and loving them and entertaining them. I'd like to think we'd spend another $200 as kidproofing insurance without batting a lash.

I could be wrong, of course.

Just not in *my* home

 

[Hohn]

Similar situation your facing OP. I recently just installed a gunvailt speedvault between nightstand and bed. bump in the night factor I have have pistol out and ready in a few seconds, yet is hidden from view and locked. as you say when things escalate they do so very quickly. the pistol is not primary, it is simply first. Grab pistol, divide family from entry point, go for back up. the pistol gives you the security of a chance to make it to your 870. thats my thoughts and thats how I set up.

I looked at the gunvaults too and was ready to buy one when I found the Ft Knox product.

I selected the latter because 1) the simplex lock requires no batteries 2) there are no keys to lose, and 3) it's stout.

The Ft Knoz weighs about 15 lb-- EMPTY. The plate steel it's made from is 3/16" or better. Simply lifting won't really tell you if it's empty or has a G20 w/ 30 rounds of Underwood GDHP waiting.

In reality, neither is truly a "safe" they are just more secure than leaving something out. Security is a spectrum, not some magical line in the sand you cross where suddenly things are "safe."

 

[JasonB]

870 under bed with Remington Trigger Lock in place... Unless unlocked the most kiddo could do would be to possibly try to use it as a club...

Put key on chain or something you always keep on or within arms reach of your person...

Plus XX Buck won't run the risk (especially in newer home construction) of allowing a stray bullet end up in neighbors house... Not to mention you get at least 6-8 .22 or slightly larger projectiles accurately on target for each pull of the trigger with a lot of #h1t behind them so you only have to be "in the ballpark" when you are half asleep and some ID-10-t tries to come in your home.

 

[VERT]

870 under bed with Remington Trigger Lock in place... Unless unlocked the most kiddo could do would be to possibly try to use it as a club...

Put key on chain or something you always keep on or within arms reach of your person...

Plus XX Buck won't run the risk (especially in newer home construction) of allowing a stray bullet end up in neighbors house... Not to mention you get at least 6-8 .22 or slightly larger projectiles accurately on target for each pull of the trigger with a lot of #h1t behind them so you only have to be "in the ballpark" when you are half asleep and some ID-10-t tries to come in your home.

I would be careful operating under the assumption that 00 buck won't penetrate walls or that the shots only need to be "in the ballpark". Shotguns make a great home defense option but they need to be aimed carefully and their projectiles will go through things.

 

[Hohn]

I would be careful operating under the assumption that 00 buck won't penetrate walls or that the shots only need to be "in the ballpark". Shotguns make a great home defense option but they need to be aimed carefully and their projectiles will go through things.

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1