Science determines the US is not a democracy

[Arthur Dent]

So, what is the plan to fix it? Continue voting republican vs. democrat?

 

[88GT]

So, what is the plan to fix it? Continue voting republican vs. democrat?

Voting is just a charade if the claims made in the OP are true. The fix is forbidden territory.

 

[mrjarrell]

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yes it was. Circa 1973... Sadly there are many things they don't teach anymore. Too much "dumbing down" due to the "No Child Gets Ahead" act. Common Core is more of the same nonsense. It's common all right, more like LOWEST COMMON CORE! The entire idea is to lower the bar so that everyone can pass and feel good about themselves.

1973 was a very good year!

 

[ModernGunner]

You deserve the government you voted in.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You deserve the government you voted in.

I have to disagree. Much of the mischief which has happened in our government is the direct result of Franklin Roosevelt packing the Supreme Court via his 4 terms in office resulting in shameless rape of the Constitution and the Republic, opening the door for Lyndon Johnson to introduce the era of flagrantly ignoring the Constitution. This happened before 1991 (1973+18). Not much I could do about it. I have been voting against statists in both parties since then, particularly in the primaries in the futile effort to get some real candidates.

Now, if you meant the general 'you', that may well be a different story.

 

[jamil]

I think "you" implies people who vote for crappy candidates deserve them. Unfortunately the rest of us don't.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

I'm pretty sure at this point the only influence we can really exert on politics is at the local, and MAYBE state, levels. I vote in all of those elections, because I believe the votes count much more. There hasn't been a presidential candidate I could stomach voting for since I have been able.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm pretty sure at this point the only influence we can really exert on politics is at the local, and MAYBE state, levels. I vote in all of those elections, because I believe the votes count much more. There hasn't been a presidential candidate I could stomach voting for since I have been able.

The conjoined problem is that there has been scant difference between candidates in any presidential election since you have been able to vote.

 

[tenring]

Timothy Sullivan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He also made sure that his henchmen were at the gates when new immigrants came through to remind them that this was a Democracy [Democrats] and not a Republic [Republicans].

 

[rob63]

FWIW, being a republic simply means that you do not have a king, a czar, a dictator, or like. Communism and democracy are both different types of republics. If you are a democracy you are also automatically a republic, so the term becomes unnecessarily redundant.

The best description of us is probably as a "constitutional, representative democracy." Meaning that the majority rules, but it is done through elected representatives rather than actual majority voting, and with constitutional limits to what the majority can impose on everyone.

The extent to which the elected representatives actually represent the interests of the electorate and follow the constitution is a separate issue.

 

[level.eleven]

Voting is just a charade if the claims made in the OP are true. The fix is forbidden territory.

What is the fix? Killing people?

 

[IndyDave1776]

FWIW, being a republic simply means that you do not have a king, a czar, a dictator, or like. Communism and democracy are both different types of republics. If you are a democracy you are also automatically a republic, so the term becomes unnecessarily redundant.

The best description of us is probably as a "constitutional, representative democracy." Meaning that the majority rules, but it is done through elected representatives rather than actual majority voting, and with constitutional limits to what the majority can impose on everyone.

The extent to which the elected representatives actually represent the interests of the electorate and follow the constitution is a separate issue.

• The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.
  • Lord Acton, The History of Freedom and Other Essays, Section III: Sir Erskine May's Democracy in Europe, p. 76.

• I do not say that democracy has been more pernicious on the whole, and in the long run, than monarchy or aristocracy. Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. … Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy. It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history. Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government, and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty. When clear prospects are opened before vanity, pride, avarice, or ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate philosophers and the most conscientious moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves. Nations and large bodies of men, never.
  • John Adams, letter to John Taylor (15 April 1814).

• The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue, but are the dupes of pretended patriots.
  • Elbridge Gerry, Constitutional Convention, Monday May 31 [FN1], 1787.

• We are now forming a republican government. Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments.
  • Alexander Hamilton, 1787-06-26

• It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.
  • Alexander Hamilton, speech in New York, urging ratification of the U.S. Constitution (1788-06-21).

Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

• James Madison, Federalist No. 10

It seems that the post-revolution consensus on democracy is that it is tyranny by 51% vote, and more to the point, unlimited government. The republic, resting on the Constitution, is a limited government (fact notwithstanding that this has largely been forgotten). Arguments about semantics aside, the principle issue is that the republic protects the minority from the majority by way of limiting the power of the government and establishing that rights cannot be infringed by the will of the majority. You will also note that much of the trouble we now have comes directly from having a constitutional republic function as a democracy through the combined duplicity of politicians and the (often willful) ignorance of those who vote for them, with both groups holding no regard for rule of law but rather fulfillment of self-interest at the expense of others, constitution, republic, and righteous treatment of all citizens be damned.

 

[nakinate]

What is the fix? Killing people?

Revolution, so probably yes, killing people.

 

[CathyInBlue]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." — Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith (13 November 1787)

 

[mrjarrell]

IBTL

 

[IndyDave1776]

IBTL

Here it is!

 

[jamil]

That fix isn't a fix anyway. It's just a reset. That's why it's from time to time. We had a revolution. Liberty won that moment. Ever since people have been trying to erode it. If we regained it, people would again work towards and succeed in eroding it.

Education is at least bloodless, if only a partial fix. But it's not a universal or permanent fix. At least as long as apathy is part of human nature.

 

[MisterChester]

That fix isn't a fix anyway. It's just a reset. That's why it's from time to time. We had a revolution. Liberty won that moment. Ever since people have been trying to erode it. If we regained it, people would again work towards and succeed in eroding it.

Education is at least bloodless, if only a partial fix. But it's not a universal or permanent fix. At least as long as apathy is part of human nature.

I agree. The idea of the "unfinished pyramid" is very true for this country. It's not perfect, not even close, but we must still do our best to fix the bad parts. Education is our best bet. Human nature can't be eradicated but it can certainly be suppressed to a point where it's impact is minimized.

 

[Jludo]

So what was really scientifically determined was that university researchers are clueless about the Constitution and what our system of government is supposed to be.

You're reading the article about the study, not the study itself, which uses the word democracy to describe the part of our democratic republic that actually is a representative democracy.
Obviously university researchers know the system is supposed to be a democratic republic.