BATFE ammunition ban (AGAIN!). Confiscation occurring right now.

[AmmoManAaron]

They got slapped down on the "steel core" M855 issue, but they didn't learn (much). They are going after a much smaller segment of the gun owning community this time and confiscation is occurring as we speak.

ATF Re-Classifies Certain Flares and 40mm Chalk Rounds as Explosives, Begins Confiscation - The Truth About Guns

This article caused me to do some research and I finally found documentation about a persistent rumor going around in the NFA community for the last couple of years. Specifically the rumor is that all tracer, incendiary, API, and APIT ammunition is no longer considered small arms ammunition, but is instead considered a low explosive and illegal to possess without an FEL (Federal Explosives License) and a proper explosives storage magazine. Well, it's not a rumor, official documentation here:

https://www.atf.gov/file/4826/download
"Further, under 27 CFR 555.11, ATF has defined "ammunition" in part, as "small arms ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or smokeless propellants designed for use in small arms…" Accordingly, .50 caliber or smaller rifle ammunition containing only smokeless powder, primers, and other items specifically listed as components of small arms ammunition, is exempt from the Federal explosives laws and regulations. In contrast, bullets containing other
pyrotechnic mixtures or high explosives (e.g., exploding
ammunition, tracer ammunition, and "spotter" ammunition), do not meet the definition of "ammunition" under 27 CFR 555.11, and therefore are not exempt as small arms ammunition."

"Persons engaged in the business of manufacturing .50 caliber or smaller ammunition containing explosive materials other than smokeless propellants or other listed components designed for use in small arms must have a license to manufacture explosive materials and abide by all other requirements imposed on licensed explosives manufacturers, unless subject to a separate exemption identified under 18 U.S.C. § 845 (e.g., manufacture by the U.S. military). Likewise, persons acquiring such ammunition must have a license or permit unless otherwise exempt (e.g., a government entity)."

This is big, REAL big.

 

[Hop]

 

[Leadeye]

So, are they going to make a sweep through the next 1500?

 

[Dosproduction]

Any way this could lead to banning the ATF. That's what needs to be done. Who are they to decide what is legal and what is not. Freedom BAH BAH BAH

 

[Seancass]

Any way this could lead to banning the ATF. That's what needs to be done. Who are they to decide what is legal and what is not. Freedom BAH BAH BAH

I'm sorry sir, You'll need to step to the back of the line and file the proper paperwork before you're allowed to talk about freedom. After you pass the test, you'll be granted a license to use the word "freedom". Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[Ruffnek]

So the tracker rounds that I bought when I bought my first AR are a no-go now? Sorry but I don't speak legalese.

 

[GIJEW]

I'm sorry sir, You'll need to step to the back of the line and file the proper paperwork before you're allowed to talk about freedom. After you pass the test, you'll be granted a license to use the word "freedom". Thanks for your cooperation.

"...but only after you report to the BLM's 1st Amendment zone, next to Mr. Cliven Bundy's ranch".

 

[GIJEW]

Not clear why tracers aren't small arms ammo, but what's this "exploding ammunition" which the BATF**ks speak of? Did they get it from James Bond?

 

[17 squirrel]

You do know that the 50 bmg read and 40mm read PDF file is from June 2013

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not clear why tracers aren't small arms ammo, but what's this "exploding ammunition" which the BATF**ks speak of? Did they get it from James Bond?

Nope. US Army. We had it for our .50 cals when I worked for DynCorp. It's impressive. For quals we shot it into sand barrels and it made explosions roughly grape fruit sized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxWbi4efgBo

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211

Among others.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

At first I thought this part just pertained to manufacturers of ammo, but that last line is concerning...


"Persons engaged in the business of manufacturing .50 caliber or smaller ammunition containing explosive materials other than smokeless propellants or other listed components designed for use in small arms must have a license to manufacture explosive materials and abide by all other requirements imposed on licensed explosives manufacturers, unless subject to a separate exemption identified under 18 U.S.C. § 845 (e.g., manufacture by the U.S. military). Likewise, persons acquiring such ammunition must have a license or permit unless otherwise exempt (e.g., a government entity)."

Now, I may or may not have purchased a bag of some 308 tracer rounds to use as spotter ammo. Will this be grandfathered in?

 

[BogWalker]

There's some chat on this over on the IAA forum. As a collector of military cartridges I'd be pretty freaking mad if I couldn't get tracer ammunition.

This is a perversion of our law. When one paper pusher can decide what is and isn't legal all by himself there is no justice.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

At first I thought this part just pertained to manufacturers of ammo, but that last line is concerning...


"Persons engaged in the business of manufacturing .50 caliber or smaller ammunition containing explosive materials other than smokeless propellants or other listed components designed for use in small arms must have a license to manufacture explosive materials and abide by all other requirements imposed on licensed explosives manufacturers, unless subject to a separate exemption identified under 18 U.S.C. § 845 (e.g., manufacture by the U.S. military). Likewise, persons acquiring such ammunition must have a license or permit unless otherwise exempt (e.g., a government entity)."

Now, I may or may not have purchased a bag of some 308 tracer rounds to use as spotter ammo. Will this be grandfathered in?

Tracers don't contain explosives. Non-issue.

 

[Beowulf]

Man, that sucks. I'm glad I held off on buying a 40mm (I was considering an M79 or an M203). If chalk rounds and flares are out, there is literally no point in owning a 40mm, except for, I guess beehive rounds. But then with the Kennesaw Cannon Company doing flare gun inserts that are somehow allowed for smaller ones, I don't see why they couldn't make one for a 12ga 37mm adapter or something (maybe .410/45 if 12ga wouldn't be allowed). Though with an M203, being mounted on another gun, that might be considered an AOW or DD or something weird.

Damn ATF, making everything so confusing.

 

[BogWalker]

Tracers don't contain explosives. Non-issue.

Read the BATFE publication in the OP, second link.. They're putting pyrotechnic mixtures in the same category as explosives for the purpose of this ruling. They out right mention tracers on the first page.

 

[SEIndSAM]

Read the BATFE publication. They're putting pyrotechnic mixtures in the same category as explosives for the purpose of this ruling.

That's how I read it too. No tracer.

Soooo, if a guy already has several hundreds of rounds of tracer .223 & .308, now what???

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Tracers don't contain explosives. Non-issue.

BATFE explosives branch disagrees and that is the problem. Exact quote:

In contrast, bullets containing other pyrotechnic mixtures or high explosives (e.g., exploding ammunition, tracer ammunition, and "spotter" ammunition), do not meet the definition of "ammunition" under 27 CFR 555.11, and therefore are not exempt as small arms ammunition."

Link to source:
https://www.atf.gov/file/4826/download

The quick and dirty is that the ruling was made by the explosives branch of the BATFE back in 2013, but the Firearms Technology Branch either wasn't aware of it or wasn't enforcing it. BATFE is now taking the above determination and using it to create "love letters" to owners of ammunition larger than .50 cal. They are enforcing it against owners of registered DD's RIGHT NOW (seizing previously legal M992 flares and M781 chalk rounds). It is only a matter of time before they start hitting the smaller caliber tracer, incendiary, and spotter rounds using that same very clear 2013 explosives branch determination.

Here are links to screen shots of the "love letter" that the BATFE is leaving for people who they know own this stuff. The way it reads, they are going to be coming after ANY ammunition larger than .50 cal. because in their opinion these rounds are no longer "small arms ammunition" but are instead some type heretofore unknown "low explosive." It truly makes no sense, but that is what is happening.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg~original

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg~original

I've been in touch with folks in the industry and the NFA community over the last 24 hours and the general consensus is that it is going to take a law suit to fix this. Most were unaware of the 2015 love letters and the seizures, but most weren't surprised by it because there have been rumors for years. The big problem seems to have been that the NFA firearms guys weren't asking the explosives branch of the BATFE. When they would ask the Firearms Technology Branch, they would say the ammo was fine and that was all the farther anyone looked because no one could figure out where the "that's illegal now" rumor was originating or what the rumor was based on.

 

[BogWalker]

That's how I read it too. No tracer.

Soooo, if a guy already has several hundreds of rounds of tracer .223 & .308, now what???

Probably hope they don't confiscate like the poor fellows with the 40mm.

A lot of other forums are seeing this ruling and acting like it's all some big joke. I've read the term "overreaction" quite often. This is the same crap they pulled with the 7n6 ban. I'm not so quick to dismiss it like some.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

Probably hope they don't confiscate like the poor fellows with the 40mm.

A lot of other forums are seeing this ruling and acting like it's all some big joke. I've read the term "overreaction" quite often. This is the same crap they pulled with the 7n6 ban. I'm not so quick to dismiss it like some.

They're still high off of the smoke from the m855 ban "victory". Every time the jackholes at the ATF come up with some new perversion we need to be on our toes and ready to strike back no matter how much of an "overreaction" it might be. Make them know that their crap is not going to be put up with.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Read the BATFE publication in the OP, second link.. They're putting pyrotechnic mixtures in the same category as explosives for the purpose of this ruling. They out right mention tracers on the first page.

I read it. I saw it was from 2013. I noted tracers continue to be available. I noted that .223 and .308 are smaller than .50.

So...What confiscation of tracers under .50?