Two-Thirds of Americans Favor Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

[Fargo]

You want me to forget the topic of this thread? Why would I do that when this study that will be used as another tool to force through "immigration reform" is junk?

Pay a fair wage and lets see what happens. Using people with no legal rights, and sub minimum wage is not an acceptable solution. If you have to break the law for your business model to work then the business model is not sustainable. We still have some very real unemployment without permitting illegal immigrants to work off the books.

You already discredited the study in your last post. The US citizens that are unemployed are not unemployed because they couldn't get a job picking fruit or laying shingles. It is more of a "will" problem.

Deport every illegal and that giant sucking sound you hear is the US economy sharply and painfully contracting. God forbid we give them a way to get legal rights and a fair wage...

 

[OakRiver]

You already discredited the study in your last post. The US citizens that are unemployed are not unemployed because they couldn't get a job picking fruit or laying shingles. It is more of a "will" problem.

You are correct; employers who exploit illegal immigrants "will" not pay US workers a fair wage

Deport every illegal and that giant sucking sound you hear is the US economy sharply and painfully contracting. God forbid we give them a way to get legal rights and a fair wage...

How much, in a $ amount do illegal immigrants contribute to the US economy?

Adam Davidson, International Business and Economics Correspondent at National Public Radio noted;
"[M]any economists say the effect of an estimated 11 million undocumented workers is minimal. While illegal immigrants have a negative impact on unskilled workers — many of whom lack technical training or a high school diploma — economists believe that overall, the American economy benefits a small amount from illegal immigration — a little bit less than 1 percent... That finding... suggests that neither side of the immigration issue has a strong economic argument to make...


Illegal immigration has both negative and positive impacts on different parts of the economy. As noted above, wages for low-skilled workers go down. But that means the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. Another negative impact is on government expenditures. Since undocumented workers generally don't pay income taxes but do use schools and other government services, they are seen as a drain on government spending.
There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.
The economic impact of illegal immigration is far smaller than other trends in the economy, such as the increasing use of automation in manufacturing or the growth in global trade. Those two factors have a much bigger impact on wages, prices and the health of the U.S. economy."

Robert Rector, MA, Senior Research Fellow in Domestic Policy at the Heritage Foundation, and Jason Richwine, PhD, Senior Policy Analyst for the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation


"In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household. This cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers... Under current law, all unlawful immigrant households together have an aggregate annual deficit of around $54.5 billion."

So I might have to pay more for meals and fresh produce? But that money goes to an American, or lawful immigrant, with a wage not lower than the minimum? I have no issue with that.


Illegal immigrants do have a way to get legal rights and a fair wage. It's called leave and apply like everyone else. Why should illegal immigrants get government assistance almost immediately while those who come here legally do not get that for a decade after entry?

 

[Fargo]

You will hear no argument from me on the welfare state, I'm against it on general principle. However, if you remove it from the equation there is no question that cheap labor is a huge economic benefit to this country. Continuing the same immigration laws and policies we have now, which largely consists of just not enforcing them, is both stupid and a legal fiction. Magically deporting them is simply not economically or practically feasible. I don't see why we don't have something like the old Bracero programs.

 

[oldpink]

IOW, a majority of the American people favor rewarding illegal violation of our national boundaries, even as we force those who actually respected our national sovereignty and laws to come in throw the front door wait years, spend thousands, and go through all manner of heartburn to earn their own citizenship?
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

[jamil]

You will hear no argument from me on the welfare state, I'm against it on general principle. However, if you remove it from the equation there is no question that cheap labor is a huge economic benefit to this country. Continuing the same immigration laws and policies we have now, which largely consists of just not enforcing them, is both stupid and a legal fiction. Magically deporting them is simply not economically or practically feasible. I don't see why we don't have something like the old Bracero programs.

That's the thing. I just want to get to the point where the number of illegal aliens are manageable enough to enforce the immigration laws we have. If it were possible to find and deport all of them, I'd go that route. But as I said, it's just not practical.

 

[Peter Potamus]

That's the thing. I just want to get to the point where the number of illegal aliens are manageable enough to enforce the immigration laws we have. If it were possible to find and deport all of them, I'd go that route. But as I said, it's just not practical.

Shut off any access to welfare, any access to jobs/income, and most of them will self-deport; the problem will largely fix itself. Finding and removing the illegals isn't practical. Shutting off their desire to be here is practical and will get rid of enough of them to make the problem, in your words, "manageable." It begins by imposing severe and enforced punishment for those who employ them. Long prison sentences and huge monetary fines, at the federal level. No welfare of any kind. Deport each and every one who is found here. Make their life here as miserable as possible and many will leave on their own. That's the only realistic answer.

 

[308jake]

Shut off any access to welfare, any access to jobs/income, and most of them will self-deport; the problem will largely fix itself. Finding and removing the illegals isn't practical. Shutting off their desire to be here is practical and will get rid of enough of them to make the problem, in your words, "manageable." It begins by imposing severe and enforced punishment for those who employ them. Long prison sentences and huge monetary fines, at the federal level. No welfare of any kind. Deport each and every one who is found here. Make their life here as miserable as possible and many will leave on their own. That's the only realistic answer.

That won't work because it makes too much sense.

 

[Mgderf]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I really don't care.
Many, many moons ago, when I was but a lad, we had no significant illegal alien problem in the U.S.
Most of the jobs that are these days labeled as jobs that "Americans don't want to do..." were filled back then by a strong and mostly dedicated workforce of teenaged kids. These MINIMUM WAGE, entry-level occupations gave them cash in their pockets, and they didn't have to peddle drugs!
As a direct consequence of this many kids "wasting their time" working after school, there were no where NEAR the juvenile delinquency issues.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ok, so here's the actual question asked:

Which comes closest to your view about what government policy should be toward illegal immigrants
currently residing in the United States? Should the government – [ROTATED: deport all illegal immigrants
back to their home country, allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States in order to work, but only
for a limited amount of time, or allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S.
citizens, but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time]?

So, if I think someone illegally brought to this country against their will in a human trafficking crime should not be deported, I'm now counted as someone who chooses "allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S. citizens, but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time". I'm sure almost everyone can think of a particular instance where an illegal should be allowed to stay. Paperwork error, been here 30 years, had kids here...that sort of thing. Yet I'm supposed to believe that because a sizable percentage of people realized that there are instances where an illegal should be allowed to stay that there is widespread support for some sort of amnesty, right? That's the heavy implication here. BS. Ask people "do you support a widespread amnesty for those who have illegally entered the country" and see if you get the same numbers. They didn't though, oddly enough, they worded it to cast a wide a net as possible without differentiating.

My

This is an area where I differ from many conservatives. It's just not practical to deport them all. I don't think "self deportation" will have the effect that people want either. What worse condition could we impose on them here that would be worse than where they'd supposedly self-deport to?

Civil forfeiture. Everything you've earned since you've been here is a result of the initial crime of illegal immigration. Declare yourself and you have time to sell your assets and leave with the wealth you've accumulated. Make us find you, and leave with nothing but a few changes of clothing and personal effects, capped at say $300.

 

[jd4320t]

There's a thread right here on INGO about the wife of a member who may be deported. They've done everything the right way and may lose.

Deport every last illegal and punish anyone who helps them.

 

[Grease]

Yeah, like INGO is a representative slice of the US as a whole. It's not even a close representation of republican voters as a whole. Go start a thread with a poll, if you want one.

Youre using a "study" posted in Reason, a very left wing liberal rag, to back up your info? Hahahaha

i remember when 0bammy wanted to do away with Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the "survey" they sent to us active duty was worded as if we all agreed that DADT was terrible and it needed to go away when that clearly was not the case.

You think for one second that I support leaving a law breaking illegal here to jump in the front of the line ahead of all those doing it the right way? My mom did not come from Mexico legally nor my entire wife's family come from Korea the legal way to be pushed to the back by a bunch of Mexican lawbreakers who are not to become Americans but, simply here for the money to send back to their 3rd world **** hole.

 

[oldpink]

Reason magazine...a libertarian publication that many people (myself included) would agree with about 70% of the time.
This falls into that other 30%.
Just over this past weekend, I was listening to the two "libertarian" boneheads who host the Free Talk Live radio show, and both of them openly said that we should have no national boundaries, and that people should be allowed to come and go as they please.
The comments these two bozos make about cops and the military are particularly reprehensible.
That's not libertarianism; that's anarchism.

 

[17 squirrel]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I really don't care.
Many, many moons ago, when I was but a lad, we had no significant illegal alien problem in the U.S.
Most of the jobs that are these days labeled as jobs that "Americans don't want to do..." were filled back then by a strong and mostly dedicated workforce of teenaged kids. These MINIMUM WAGE, entry-level occupations gave them cash in their pockets, and they didn't have to peddle drugs!
As a direct consequence of this many kids "wasting their time" working after school, there were no where NEAR the juvenile delinquency issues.

Yepp.. I worked at Gino's KFC and a Great uncle's Hardware store unloading and loading fifty lb bags of Purinia Chows heading to NIH for the huge sum of 1.65 a hour.
Up until the huge influx of illegals the Sun Washington Post would have 40 - 70 pages of help wanted for the Wash DC metro area. Now you might see 4-6 pages.

 

[17 squirrel]

There's a thread right here on INGO about the wife of a member who may be deported. They've done everything the right way and may lose.

Deport every last illegal and punish anyone who helps them.

I believe they filled out some paperwork that does not match her original claiming asylum. She has been here 10 + years.
I would ask why they have waited ten years ? It does not take 10 years to become a US citizen. It's about 5+ and less if you are granted a green card claiming asylum. I'm not being a dick, but its a pretty strait forward process.

 

[AA&E]

I don't believe that for a second. You can get a poll to say whatever you want it to. A part of Trump's current popularity (IMO) hinges on his anti-immigration platform.

 

[AA&E]

Here's the link to the poll and the methodology is listed. On what logical basis do you dispute the findings?

In U.S., 65% Favor Path to Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

Quote FTA - "The latest update comes from Gallup's 2015 Minority Rights and Relations poll, conducted June 15-July 10. The poll included larger samples of blacks and Hispanics. Immigration is of special significance to Hispanics, about half of whom are immigrants themselves, according to the poll"




That poll is as representative of US opinion as a gun control poll where you disproportionately sampled a statistically greater number of INGUN members then demographics suggest to be accurate. Complete utter nonsense. This is the misinformation campaign level bull**** the US used to mock the soviet republic's media for... and some of our fellow Americans are taking the bait... hook, line, and sinker.

 

[OakRiver]

You will hear no argument from me on the welfare state, I'm against it on general principle. However, if you remove it from the equation there is no question that cheap labor is a huge economic benefit to this country. Continuing the same immigration laws and policies we have now, which largely consists of just not enforcing them, is both stupid and a legal fiction. Magically deporting them is simply not economically or practically feasible. I don't see why we don't have something like the old Bracero programs.

As I said before, if economic conditions are less favourable to them then illegal immigrants will largely self deport. And I will agree with you that not enforcing our existing laws is counterproductive. Had we actually enforced them then Kate Steinle would likely still be alive today

You continue to claim that illegal immigrant workers are a "huge economic benefit", but I have yet to see any figures to substantiate this. Instead I have shown that illegal immigrants are a net drain on society's resources.

So, if I think someone illegally brought to this country against their will in a human trafficking crime should not be deported, I'm now counted as someone who chooses "allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S. citizens, but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time". I'm sure almost everyone can think of a particular instance where an illegal should be allowed to stay. Paperwork error, been here 30 years, had kids here...that sort of thing. Yet I'm supposed to believe that because a sizable percentage of people realized that there are instances where an illegal should be allowed to stay that there is widespread support for some sort of amnesty, right? That's the heavy implication here. BS. Ask people "do you support a widespread amnesty for those who have illegally entered the country" and see if you get the same numbers. They didn't though, oddly enough, they worded it to cast a wide a net as possible without differentiating.

Precisely. This entire survey was designed with the desired result in mind, and steps were taken to ensure that was achieved.

 

[OakRiver]

Reason magazine...a libertarian publication that many people (myself included) would agree with about 70% of the time.
This falls into that other 30%.
Just over this past weekend, I was listening to the two "libertarian" boneheads who host the Free Talk Live radio show, and both of them openly said that we should have no national boundaries, and that people should be allowed to come and go as they please.
The comments these two bozos make about cops and the military are particularly reprehensible.
That's not libertarianism; that's anarchism.

The problem with this idea is that a lot of people will come, but very few will go

 

[cobber]

Currently the system is definitely skewed toward hispanic illegal aliens.

On the other hand, the wait list for, say, persons from the Philippines who want to legally immigrate is more than ten years and often more. For other countries as much. Some nationalities are closed for legal immigration. I'll be glad to bring in some figures for Mr. J.

How is that not racist (since we've already been told that 'mexican' or 'muslim' is a race)? But of course the Dems don't give a rat's ass about Filipinos.

 

[Baditude]

Drag off 11 million? You don't have to. Most are economic migrants. A few changes and many will remove themselves;
- no government assistance of any kind (SNAP/Medicare/school/housing)
- no driving license
- no government ID
- expand the I-9 program
- heavy penalties ($10,000 per illegal immigrant working for you, any more than 6 = 6 months Federal prison)
- withdrawing Federal aid for any municipality that does not cooperate with ICE

This plus hospitals no longer required to give medical attention to those without insurance unless its a life threatening emergency
No educational benefits for non citizens including anchor babies