House Passes the Healtcare Bill

[Shadowbeach]

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[MTC]

Well alrighty then! Didn't know I had a condescending tone. My apologies! But I'm right. Hatch just seems to think this is the start when it's actually just one more step. That's what I was meaning to sound like. MY BAD! See, I guess I can make all kinda tones over the interwebz!

I'll look you up one day when I'm in your area. I have some token gifts of appreciation for your spirit and efforts. Not much, but guaranteed to make you smile.

 

[WabashMX5]

No surprise, but I got the same canned auto-response from Bayh, after sending this:

Dear Sen. Bayh:

I appreciate the reluctance you’ve expressed to jump on your party’s healthcare bandwagon. For all the various bills’ many flaws, one strikes me as being the simplest to explain, while still being sufficient to justify a “no” vote.

Requiring not only that insurers cover pre-existing conditions, but that they charge no additional premium for doing so, will inevitably destroy private insurance and result in a socialized, single-payer system. (I suspect that is the true goal of many in your party, but I trust that you are not among them.)

I understand the humane sentiment behind the bar on pre-existing condition exclusions, but emotion does not change basic economic reality. Forbidding premium surcharges will make everyone’s premiums uniformly exorbitant and unaffordable — creating “equality” by making everybody equally miserable. Not even a universal-coverage mandate could spread the risk pool broadly enough to escape that inevitability.

Then, when that time comes, our nation’s leftists will cite that result (while denying that it’s of their own making) as evidence of insurer “greed” that requires a national, socialized single-payer system. And since such systems necessarily result in cut-rate, rationed care, there will be even greater equality — again, resulting from even greater common misery.

There are many other sound reasons to oppose the current healthcare proposals. But even if this were the only reason, it would still be sufficient to identify it as the most obviously-destructive and -unsustainable piece of federal legislation to be proposed since Social Security. And it will have the same result, exponentially growing in cost until an inevitable collapse.

Rising healthcare costs are a serious concern, but they’re not susceptible of any quick fix. (My thoughts on the only viable fix are beyond the scope of this letter.) I fear for the world my two-year-old son will face if any part of these foolish proposals passes.

Please, Senator. For the good of Indiana, and our nation as a whole, vote “no” on Obamacare.

Respectfully,

WabashMX5

 

[SavageEagle]

I'll look you up one day when I'm in your area. I have some token gifts of appreciation for your spirit and efforts. Not much, but guaranteed to make you smile.

I'm almost always here.

Good ole ball and chain keeps me in line...

 

[MTC]

I'm almost always here.

Good ole ball and chain keeps me in line...

...They shall mount up with wings as eagles. [Isaiah 40:31]

 

[hornadylnl]

Since I generally and naturally tend to lean toward an optimistic view of things, there is one aspect of all this that may offer some encouragement, that being:

Legislation of this sort is bound to create a conservative backlash in 2010 and 2012, and I think we will see a lot of liberal politicians being shown the door. Whether or not it is enough and soon enough however to reverse or mitigate and of the damage done, remains to be seen.

I hate to spoil your optimism but just who are the liberals be replaced with? Rino liberals? What would be the point?

 

[SavageEagle]

I hate to spoil your optimism but just who are the liberals be replaced with? Rino liberals? What would be the point?

I truly believe that we won't get much more than the same ole same ole. Sure, there are some people running for office that would do us right. But I fear that we will get just more career politicians and nothing will change.

 

[ph363]

I hate to tell you, but they already force you to buy Car insurance. They force companies to buy all kinds of insurance depending on the business. In some states you MUST buy the Weather Alert radios.

I'd say the governement is already forcing us to buy things. Whether we need them or not.

there is a stark difference between a state regulating your participation in an optional licensed action and a federally imposed fee for simply being alive.

 

[Shadowbeach]

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[Go Devil]

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[henktermaat]

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Yep... and probably best to remove that post

 

[TheLoneRaider]

I'm going to say its D.O.A. The Senate wont pass that mess.

 

[Fletch]

I'm going to say its D.O.A. The Senate wont pass that mess.

I'm going to pray that you are right.

 

[SavageEagle]

there is a stark difference between a state regulating your participation in an optional licensed action and a federally imposed fee for simply being alive.

Are you sure? Cause as far as I know, I'm paying for HUD, Medicare, SS, Food stamps, etc etc etc. And I don't have a choice.

And as far as I know, car insurance isn't optional.... Unless you want to lose your RIGHT to drive. Yes, it's a right, or, it should be. It definitely shouldn't be a privilege that requires a license to do so.

I'm going to pray that you are right.

Me too. I'm going to pray, but I'm not sure God is going to keep things all hunky dory anymore... I think God is pretty angry with us right now....

 

[ph363]

Are you sure? Cause as far as I know, I'm paying for HUD, Medicare, SS, Food stamps, etc etc etc. And I don't have a choice.

And as far as I know, car insurance isn't optional.... Unless you want to lose your RIGHT to drive. Yes, it's a right, or, it should be. It definitely shouldn't be a privilege that requires a license to do so.

They are optional in the sense that if you do not produce, you do not owe. A health insurance mandate is different in the way that the only thing that has any effect on your obligational status is weather or not you are living.

Yes, driving is a privilege. Traveling is a right. Google will provide many interesting things to read about this subject as well as SS resignation.

 

[Spot Me 2]

Since I generally and naturally tend to lean toward an optimistic view of things, there is one aspect of all this that may offer some encouragement, that being:

Legislation of this sort is bound to create a conservative backlash in 2010 and 2012, and I think we will see a lot of liberal politicians being shown the door. Whether or not it is enough and soon enough however to reverse or mitigate and of the damage done, remains to be seen.

It will be FAR TOO LATE by then!!!! Look what they have done in the first 10 months. If this passes the senate, there will be no need to vote in 2010. You probably wont be allowed to by then anyway. Shortly I'm going to start casting my votes $2.36 at a time

 

[SavageEagle]

They are optional in the sense that if you do not produce, you do not owe. A health insurance mandate is different in the way that the only thing that has any effect on your obligational status is weather or not you are living.

Yes, driving is a privilege. Traveling is a right. Google will provide many interesting things to read about this subject as well as SS resignation.

Traveling and Driving are one in the same. No amount of googling will change my mind on this.

Sorry for the

 

[Shadowbeach]

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[Indy317]

Are you sure? Cause as far as I know, I'm paying for HUD, Medicare, SS, Food stamps, etc etc etc. And I don't have a choice.

Everyone has a choice. The way the liberals/socialist run the country, they can't discriminate on the above. Everyone is able to get all the above. The question is, one must lose everything (to an extent) to gain the above. You have to quit your job. Most Section 8 complexes/rentals are in bad areas, so you have to live there. You can never have any "legal" extra money. Only money you can make is on the side, under the radar. If this money is made via illegal means, good chance you will get caught eventually. If you are making your money doing day labor, you won't make that much, but less chance of getting caught.

Eventually, the middle class will be so close to the lower class, that millions of people will find it easy to just up and quit their job, to stop becoming productive members of society. Liberals will argue that if those kind of people do that, the poor will magically jump into those jobs. That won't happen. Too many lower income types lack education, desire, will, etc.. to be a productive member of society. They might be OK working 50 hours one week, but will demand the boss let them work only 20 hours the next.

A massive walk off the status quo is the _only_ way to bring the system down. Once the middle class/income productive class joins the inner city layabouts and bums, this country collapses. The question really is when will this happen? I don't know, but it will happen. People, especially lower middle class, are feeling tapped out. They have to limit the number of kids they have, because they, unlike inner city welfare poor, have to actually pay for their kids. All the while, the lower class is growing. Women don't care about having six or seven kids by the time they are 40, all with different fathers, none of whom are or were around.

This is just another slide towards the death of a heavy individual freedom leaning US of A.

 

[SavageEagle]

Everyone has a choice. The way the liberals/socialist run the country, they can't discriminate on the above. Everyone is able to get all the above. The question is, one must lose everything (to an extent) to gain the above. You have to quit your job. Most Section 8 complexes/rentals are in bad areas, so you have to live there. You can never have any "legal" extra money. Only money you can make is on the side, under the radar. If this money is made via illegal means, good chance you will get caught eventually. If you are making your money doing day labor, you won't make that much, but less chance of getting caught.

Eventually, the middle class will be so close to the lower class, that millions of people will find it easy to just up and quit their job, to stop becoming productive members of society. Liberals will argue that if those kind of people do that, the poor will magically jump into those jobs. That won't happen. Too many lower income types lack education, desire, will, etc.. to be a productive member of society. They might be OK working 50 hours one week, but will demand the boss let them work only 20 hours the next.

A massive walk off the status quo is the _only_ way to bring the system down. Once the middle class/income productive class joins the inner city layabouts and bums, this country collapses. The question really is when will this happen? I don't know, but it will happen. People, especially lower middle class, are feeling tapped out. They have to limit the number of kids they have, because they, unlike inner city welfare poor, have to actually pay for their kids. All the while, the lower class is growing. Women don't care about having six or seven kids by the time they are 40, all with different fathers, none of whom are or were around.

This is just another slide towards the death of a heavy individual freedom leaning US of A.

Yes, you're right. Everyone has the choice to pay into these programs or not. You have the choice to pay or go to jail. Just as you will have the choice to have Health Insurance or go to jail. That's not a choice, that's force.

And no, not everyone is able to get what you quoted in my post. Even if you are totally broke and without a job. Just because you qualify does NOT mean you automatically get it. If that was the case there would be no homeless, we wouldn't need this "health care reform", and no one would be hungry.

Yes, I get foodstamps. Yes my two youngest are on the Medicaid. I'm not proud of it. But at least we are currently paying into the system and I've paid into it the better half of my life. So at least I'm getting SOMETHING out of what I've paid into it. And I'm desperately trying to get out of it.