Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[JAL]

Now the real question, do you think video games cause violence?

The topic of first person military combat video games strikes a nerve. Not that they cause violence per se, they change the perception of violence used in the prosecution of a war. One that I've long had a problem with is Call of Duty which has resulted tweenies asking veterans how many confirmed kills they have, what the average number of confirmed kills US Army soldiers have compared to Marines, what soldiers or marines have the all time highest confirmed kills, how many confirmed kills are required for promotion or medals, how many total confirmed kills a soldier has over a career, how many confirmed kills SEALs have compared to SAS (British), and the list goes on, to the extent I just want to wretch. Go to Quora and see the endless questions repeatedly asking this. They're endless. Think this is Frat guys with nothing better to do? I've seen these kinds of questions asked in other forums with 5th-9th graders. One of the more common questions asked of veterans by boys in particular of that age is how many enemy they've killed. The game's structure is apparently such that he who has the highest number of "confirmed kills" wins. It deliberately celebrates "kills", i.e. body count.

Having actually waged real war, this perception that war is about "confirmed kills" is most troubling. It's a deja vu nightmare of the Vietnam War "search and destroy body count" metric for success driven by Robert S. McNamara with a scoreboard including weekly and monthly "progress" kept by General William C. Westmoreland. McNamara in particular along with Westmoreland sold LBJ a pig in a poke that "search and destroy body count" could win the war. It led us into countless causalties while inflicting entirely unnecessary collateral damage on the Vietnamese people, all in the name of pursuing that all-important body count metric. Historically his claim to fame was his work in the Office of Statistical Control, starting as an AAF captain in 1943 for MG Curtis LeMay's B-29 bomber forces in the Pacific Theater. It was purely numerically driven, completely devoid of considering the human element of leadership and the cumulative effect of war on bomber crews and their effectiveness. If it's not already obvious, I have no love lost for Robert S. McNamara. Games like Call of Duty replicate this and I find it disgusting.

If one wants to truly understand warfare and the prosecution of war, they should read, among other works, Machiavelli's "Il Principe" (The Prince), Carl von Clausewitz's "Vom Kriege" (On War) and Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". Start with Carl von Clausewitz. Call of Duty is an obscene perversion of warfare.

John
(my rant on combat related video games)

 

[actaeon277]

"We need a national conversation about guns"

Okay, let's have one.

"If you don't agree with me to ban guns it's because you're evil."

You're a ****ing moron.

End of national conversation about guns.

Pretty much

 

[Kutnupe14]

The topic of first person military combat video games strikes a nerve. Not that they cause violence per se, they change the perception of violence used in the prosecution of a war. One that I've long had a problem with is Call of Duty which has resulted tweenies asking veterans how many confirmed kills they have, what the average number of confirmed kills US Army soldiers have compared to Marines, what soldiers or marines have the all time highest confirmed kills, how many confirmed kills are required for promotion or medals, how many total confirmed kills a soldier has over a career, how many confirmed kills SEALs have compared to SAS (British), and the list goes on, to the extent I just want to wretch. Go to Quora and see the endless questions repeatedly asking this. They're endless. Think this is Frat guys with nothing better to do? I've seen these kinds of questions asked in other forums with 5th-9th graders. One of the more common questions asked of veterans by boys in particular of that age is how many enemy they've killed. The game's structure is apparently such that he who has the highest number of "confirmed kills" wins. It deliberately celebrates "kills", i.e. body count.

Having actually waged real war, this perception that war is about "confirmed kills" is most troubling. It's a deja vu nightmare of the Vietnam War "search and destroy body count" metric for success driven by Robert S. McNamara with a scoreboard including weekly and monthly "progress" kept by General William C. Westmoreland. McNamara in particular along with Westmoreland sold LBJ a pig in a poke that "search and destroy body count" could win the war. It led us into countless causalties while inflicting entirely unnecessary collateral damage on the Vietnamese people, all in the name of pursuing that all-important body count metric. Historically his claim to fame was his work in the Office of Statistical Control, starting as an AAF captain in 1943 for MG Curtis LeMay's B-29 bomber forces in the Pacific Theater. It was purely numerically driven, completely devoid of considering the human element of leadership and the cumulative effect of war on bomber crews and their effectiveness. If it's not already obvious, I have no love lost for Robert S. McNamara. Games like Call of Duty replicate this.

If one wants to truly understand warfare and the prosecution of war, they should read, among other works, Machiavelli's "Il Principe" (The Prince), Carl von Clausewitz's "Vom Kriege" (On War) and Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". Start with Carl von Clausewitz. Call of Duty is an obscene perversion of warfare.

John
(my rant on combat related video games)

This kind of thought isn't all that uncommon in a militaristic society. We may be a relatively "free" society, but we are certainly one of, if not the most militaristic society on the planet.

 

[bmbutch]

If we are expected to believe that there is no video, I have lost all trust in the investigative process or any hope the public will ever know the whole truth. This entire thing is starting to smell like anchovies left out in the sun.

Never bought into conspiracy theories, but I agree this entire investigation reeks of POO

 

[dugsagun]

I will say, that if my small demographic of people i know playing war video games is any representation of the general war video game playing populace, They are all stoners and would have a hard time ordering pizza on the phone instead of online, let alone plot a mass murder. NOW , having said that , I have nothing against adults getting high, or getting drunk, or in this modern society, heaven forbid , smoking cigarettes! I actually dont do any of those, as my 440 pounds can attest, Im a fat bastard. My personal poison is PIZZA, i swear i could eat it every day, not from the same place mind you, but different pizza places in general. (crap, im getting hungry). i dont think video games, that have been around my whole life (hey, who remembers the arcades at the mall, those were awesome!) cause mass murders. I think Mental health problems, whatever they may be or are caused by, are generally to blame.

 

[JAL]

There is frustration, anger and with some, complete outrage, among the general public about the killer, his four dozen firearms (nearly all long guns) and his dozen Slide Fire stocks. They cannot get their heads wrapped around why anyone would have any legitimate need or purpose to own an "arsenal" that size, or the tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition for them. I can comprehend it, especially for collectors, but it's unfathomable to John Q. Public.

The American public has been repeatedly told, somewhat mistakenly, that machine guns are illegal, and that it's illegal to convert a semi-automatic firearm of any kind into a fully automatic firearm, whether it's a machine gun, rifle, shotgun, sub-machine gun or machine pistol. Those with better knowledge about BATF and the 1985 NFA Class III weapons legislation know they're very heavily regulated and with the only automatic weapons and conversion devices to create automatic weapons (from semi-automatic) allowed being made before 1985.

This mass murderer comes along and uses an add-on device that dramatically increases the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle up to that of a fully automatic variant of the same rifle. It doesn't matter that technically the rifle is still semi-automatic firing one cartridge per trigger pull. It only matters that it now has the same rate of fire as a fully automatic one. In the eyes of the general public . . . Soccer Mommy and Dutiful Daddy living in Cul-de-Sac Suburbville, complete with HOA that dictates how long your grass can be, the size and shape and color of your mailbox, the color you paint your garage door, behind which all your vehicles must be parked, not in front of it or in the street for any length of time beyond what's needed to wash it on Saturday morning, if you're allowed to wash your car at your home. (That's what car washes are for, to prevent detergent suds from flowing down the street, polluting ground water with detergents.) Their perception is the nation's fanatical gun nuts with a perverse fetish that worships these killing machines, have exploited a technical loophole that may not violate the letter of the law, but it circumvents the spirit of the law, a law that is supposed to make machine guns illegal. They don't care that it's technically not a machine gun. They only care that it's now become the equivalent of a machine gun with the same rate of fire.

Frustration, apoplexy and outrage ensue with a demand the government that has failed them to do something. Solution for many is similar to what they would do after they discover their 16 year old Jimmy or Sally cannot be trusted to abide by the spirit of the boundaries they've set for the use of the(ir) car. Confiscate the driver's license and car keys. If it's serious enough (i.e. car wreck and dramatically increased insurance), sell their car out from under them. Problem solved. Permanently. No more worry about whether or not they'll comply with the rules.

This perception of the problem and its simple to implement permanent solution is the Sisyphean Task the NRA and others have to stave off the demand for an enormous pile of Draconian gun control laws including serious calls to repeal the 2nd Amendment and ban private ownership of firearms. Firearms owners are perceived as having violated, en masse, a public trust that they'll not violate the spirit of the law, especially regarding machine guns. One only need to cruise YouTube to see many dozens of Slide Fire videos, dumping 100 round drums of bullets down range in fifteen seconds (or less), to the glee and laughter of everyone present when it was recorded.

Make all the argument about 2nd Amendment, our Founding Fathers' intent for it, and the need for individual self protection you want. Perception is Truth in the eyes of the perceiver. The current perception of gun owners in the eyes of the general public is not all that great. These are major reasons I posted a day or so ago that (at the very least) we would very soon kiss the "bump stock" and similar devices goodbye.

I've got a few distant relatives who cannot begin to fathom why anyone would want a firearm of any kind for any reason. They consider them extremely dangerous and those who own them just as dangerous whenever they're handling or carrying one. My mother, long since passed away, was vehemently anti-gun of any kind whatsoever (the reason is a long story related to her childhood). She would not have them in "her" house, or even stored in a car parked in her driveway.

Step back some and look at what has happened through the eyes of Joe and Jane Public, who don't own firearms and don't see any need to own firearms, but want desperately, in a world of terrorists and terrorist acts, to have some sense of security that they're safe from being shot or blown up by a crazed killer. Successfully preserving 2nd Amendment rights without any impingement will have to get them back into a comfort zone. Unfortunately, I cannot see that happening with bump fire and other devices designed to accomplish the same thing remaining legal.

I don't believe banning them will accomplish anything substantive beyond satisfying imagined perceptions.

John

 

[KellyinAvon]

This kind of thought isn't all that uncommon in a militaristic society. We may be a relatively "free" society, but we are certainly one of, if not the most militaristic society on the planet.

I'm wondering about your view as the US as a "militaristic society". I'd say most don't know Sun Tzu from General Tso. We have a standing military but this ain't Sparta. Countries like the ROK with conscription I would see as more militaristic than say Iceland (which has no military, just a strategic location) which would be a zero on the militaristic scale. Is it a "The US will kick ass when most of the world is having a latte" thing?

 

[jamil]

You sir, owe me a glass of Red Breast Cask!

Eh, I’m not sure you’d like that fluid exchange.

 

[Woobie]

I'm wondering about your view as the US as a "militaristic society". I'd say most don't know Sun Tzu from General Tso. We have a standing military but this ain't Sparta. Countries like the ROK with conscription I would see as more militaristic than say Iceland (which has no military, just a strategic location) which would be a zero on the militaristic scale. Is it a "The US will kick ass when most of the world is having a latte" thing?

You could say we glamorize the military more than most. We spend more on military than anyone. But militaristic to me means soldiers on duty in the streets, conscription, possibly quartering of troops, intelligence organizations actively working among and even against the citizens. We don't come close to the top of that list.

 

[Woobie]

M-60, is belt fed, and 7.62 ......

He's trackin'. He's just doubling down on the semi-auto joke.

 

[jamil]

JAL, J-Q public lives in a bubble. The bubble needs to burst.

 

[LP1]

"We need a national conversation about guns"

Okay, let's have one.

"If you don't agree with me to ban guns it's because you're evil."

You're a ****ing moron.

End of national conversation about guns.

Until people on both sides of this issue are willing to get past the disdain for and demonizing of the other side, we are doomed to have nothing more than shouting matches. People who disagree with us are not evil or stupid. The vast majority of us all want the same thing - to be allowed to go about our business in peace. We have different opinions, and nobody has all the right answers.

The minute you say (or think) "that person is evil / an idiot" or calling them names, look in the mirror and you'll see the real problem.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Casinos have the best camera systems in the world, right?

i read mandalay found him on their security footage from 2011. Can you imagine archiving that much data for that long???

and will there ever be another event at that facility? Can you metal detector the grasss when its's all said and done?

 

[T.Lex]

i read mandalay found him on their security footage from 2011. Can you imagine archiving that much data for that long???

He was a professional gambler. They keep vids of those guys forever so they can investigate any changes in wins/losses. They probably don't have generic lobby footage from that far back. But they might.

 

[jamil]

Until people on both sides of this issue are willing to get past the disdain for and demonizing of the other side, we are doomed to have nothing more than shouting matches. People who disagree with us are not evil or stupid. The vast majority of us all want the same thing - to be allowed to go about our business in peace. We have different opinions, and nobody has all the right answers.

The minute you say (or think) "that person is evil / an idiot", look in the mirror and you'll see the real problem.

No. Seriously. Jimmy Kimmel is an ideologue. He’s not a moron, but that’s why he sounds like a moron. Of course, we have our ideologues too. But no matter how level-headed you are, you cannot have a conversation with people who think that “conversation” means you either agree with them, or you’re evil.

I’ve had actual conversations about guns with sane people on the other side. I know what that looks like. It doesn’t look anything like Jimmy Kimmel’s “conversation”. Even if we still disagree in the end, they don’t think I’m evil for my position, because they now understand it better. And I don’t come away thinking they’re morons because they didn’t act like morons.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Funny, if true.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Kimmel is shilling for Everytown at the ActBlue website. His transition from semi-neutral comedian to DNC hack is complete.

Dear crazies: it is fascinating that 500 innocent people get shot and your anger is directed at me. Think about that

https://twitter.com/jimmykimmel/status/916091079258136576

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The NRA should be less willing to compromise. We always lose or give up something. I'm tired of giving up rights and getting shafted by the anti's.

I'm hard pressed to think of any meaningful losses, and definitely not give-aways, in the last couple decades. A couple states on the coasts have passed some fairly draconian laws, and I wouldn't want to live there, and Obama made some unilateral executive orders that can and should be easily undone... but otherwise, it's been mostly positive starting with the sun setting of the AW ban, CCW in all states, stand-your-ground, Heller and McDonald to stamp the 2nd with the SCOTUS acknowledgement, Gorsuch to shore up the SCOTUS, etc.

And, we are on the brink of SHARE, HPA and universal reciprocity of CCWs.

To be honest, IMO, those will depend upon the next election (2018) as the Dems will filibuster all of the above in the Senate... so now is not the time to appear as "extremists" to the Independent voters who decide the important elections. And, whatever your or my feelings about NFA, a slide/bump-stock is a "technical" end-run around the long-standing full-auto laws.

And, almost as importantly, this is the one time when a prohibition would likely have made a difference in the number of people killed and injured. We've gotta be honest about this. A large, crowded mass of people where pretty much every round into the crowd has a high probability of wounding or death... one of the few scenarios where "spray and pray" is actually "effective" (I'm sorry to say it that way, but other words elude me).

Forget the anti's for a moment, they want to ban and confiscate everything. Among the non-anti's, gun-owners and non-gun owners alike, a slide/bump-stock is the equivalent of a full auto. To try to defend THAT, NOW, is a loser... it could rationally be viewed as an "extreme" position, a charge by the anti's that hasn't stuck in the past (because it was untrue and they were caught in too many lies)... this could change that with disastrous long-term consequences that a shift in momentum would bring.

It's not the hill to die upon, IMO.

 

[T.Lex]

Meanwhile, The Boston Globe reports Paddock is known to have carried out internet searches for both Fenway Park and the Boston Center for the Arts, citing an anonymous government official.

These things tend to move further away from any ideological motive. To me, it seems more likely that he decided on someplace close to home to simplify the logistics of getting all the arms and ammo to the site.

Also, still no explanation of the blue hose. Could he have had some sort of hydration bladder, like the military uses in the desert environments? That could be part of what makes the authorities say he was planning some sort of escape.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Informative list of facts gleened from statements of the authorities:

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...re-latest-las-vegas-sheriff-press-conference/

Including this:

*suspect vehicle held ten 1lb containers of tannerite explosive. Two 20lb containers of tannerite and an additional 1,600 rounds of ammunition.

Was the car parked in line of sight from his firing position? Possible diversion by shooting into the car with the "boom" from the tannerite and the cook-off of 1,600 rounds?