State contractor exploring plan to add more tolls to Indiana, including 465.

[bobzilla]

Question.

Is there some unspoken courtesy or something to allow large groups of bicycle riders to ride through a stop sign?

Because a couple years ago, when I stopped at a sign and then drove through on my turn... some bike riders looked at me real indignant-like, as though I did something wrong.

Up here in Boone Co they like to ride 5 and 6 wide and DARE you to pass them on county roads. Heaven forbid you were on your way home from a long ass day from work. You just made one of them move over. How DARE I.

 

[mensajess]

Did I miss the constitutional right to keep and ride bicycles? I’ve said it a dozen times, you can’t break the traffic laws on a bike and expect people to give you respect. When you follow the laws and yield to traffic trying to get by, I’m sure the respect will come back around. And like rvb said, would you be annoyed if you were stuck behind a car going 20 in a 45?

I carry a copy of the bicycle related laws, and nowhere does it say I must yield to traffic trying to get by. It says no more than 2 riding abreast (IC 9-21-11-6 Lane use restrictions; riding two abreast).
But it does have (IC 9-21-8-37) Notwithstanding other provisions of this article or a local ordinance, a person who drives a vehicle shall do the following: (1) Exercise due care to avoid colliding with a pedestrian or a person propelling a human powered vehicle, giving an audible signal when necessary.
Sec 441-372 Duty to yield to bicycle operator; mininum passing distance (a) The driver or operator of any vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to an individual operating a bicycle on a designated bicycle path or lane.
(b) The driver or operator of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle must pass the bicycle at a safe distance of not less than three(3) feet between the vehicle and the bicycle.

 

[eldirector]

coexist until it is safe to pass, then pass without causing distress (i.e. buzzing too close, rolling coal, honking, yelling, throwing things)
Where are you finding bikes 30 under the limit? Children riding in a 45? Guys like me on highways at 55 or interstates at 65?

30 under is really, really common out here. SR267 is posted at 40 MPH north of 200N, and 45 MPH south of 200N. Bicycles are common. County roads are routinely marked at 50 MPH. The Ronald Reagan is posted 55 MPH north of US 136. I've seen cyclists out there as well. Not in the shoulder, but in the right lane. All perfectly legal, I am sure. But, as a cyclist myself, not exactly a brilliant idea.

 

[Benp]

I carry a copy of the bicycle related laws, and nowhere does it say I must yield to traffic trying to get by.

Tractors don't have to move over to let people by either, but I know that we really appreciate it when they do.

 

[dusty88]

The problem with some bicycle riders is the same as some tractor drivers, leaf lookers, sight seers, combines, and other slow vehicles--yeah, you have the same right as everybody else to use the roadways but when you look back and see people lined up behind you, have a little consideration and let them pass you. You want respect? You have to give it to get it.

Let's break that down for a minute.

If you mean move over to the edge as much as is reasonably safe, sure. Always do. That's why we call out "car back" or "car up" on bicycle rides so we can be extra-aware, possibly move from two abreast to single file, etc

But when we are holding up traffic it's often a road without a paved shoulder and we are already on the edge. If I'm in my slow-moving motorized vehicle, I'm often equipped to pull over somewhere (and have when space allows)

On my bicycle, just how do I do that? If I did try to ride into the gravel or grass I'm likely to take a spill possibly right in front of your car. If I want to get off and walk, I have to STOP first. If I stop my bike in front of a car, even a careful driver is likely to be surprised and hit me. We warn other cyclists we are stopping by yelling out "stopping". An automobile driver won't hear that. And the old hand signal for a "stop" is so rarely used I wouldn't trust it. There is nothing safe I can do until we are at an intersection or something similar.

 

[rvb]

coexist until it is safe to pass, then pass without causing distress (i.e. buzzing too close, rolling coal, honking, yelling, throwing things)
Where are you finding bikes 30 under the limit? Children riding in a 45? Guys like me on highways at 55 or interstates at 65?

well I asked about cars, because I was curious if you ever get frustrated with other cars when in your car. kinda flipped the "see it from our perspective" idea.
But if we want to talk bikes, do you want me to believe the world is all either flat or downhill? I've been behind bicycles going 3-5 mph where I had to ride my brakes to keep from over-taking at idle, because of a grade.....

Not much different than when I'm forced to go 15-20 mph in a 35/45/55/whatever zone for several miles because of a bicycle up ahead.

The gun connection is that you see one "bad guy" on a bike therefore all bikes are "bad" and shouldn't be on the road. Where is a "safe" place for me to ride? I've had the worst encounters in Plainfield, been buzzed all over county roads in Johnson and Hamilton (when I lived there), the Monon is great for rides until you have to repeat it for 50 miles, the same with fall creek trail. Then I have to worry about where to park my car and/or pay for parking.

strawman.
I never said that. I have said bikes should not be allowed to impede regular traffic. Find a road where you don't impede traffic.
Don't know why you had the word "safe" in quotes. I never used that word either. I said "get to a better place to ride" meaning where you won't be a rolling road block (which I would think also happens to be safer for everyone). Heck, I have some bike trails w/in a mile of my house, where I'd only have to be on a busy/main roads for <1/2 mi. I drive the bikes there, both out of consideration for my (and my kids' safety) as well as out of consideration to the motorists.

-rvb

 

[dusty88]

I don't get a gun connection. at all. no one is trying to take your bikes away? Maybe because we're advocating for responsible use? Do you like to keep your finger on the trigger?

when I'm trying to get my bicycle to a better place to ride, I throw it in the back of the truck, and get it out when I get there.....

-rvb

So because you are annoyed by slow-moving vehicles, someone else should not use the road legally by riding their bike to work, saving petroleum resources, and staying more healthy? I guess I don't consider it "irresponsible use" to ask you to drive safely even when some of the traffic isn't at your preferred speed.

Do I get annoyed by slow drivers sometimes? yeah but that's only when I didn't leave early enough to begin with. If I give myself plenty of time, being behind a slow vehicle for a while is just part of the realities of life. If they go on for miles and miles, then yes I would like them to find a place to pull over and let traffic by. Never in my life have I driven behind a cyclist that held me up for miles. Even on group rides, there's been a break in the traffic where I can carefully get around after a few minutes.

 

[mensajess]

Heck, I have some bike trails w/in a mile of my house, where I'd only have to be on a busy/main roads for <1/2 mi. I drive the bikes there, both out of consideration for my (and my kids' safety) as well as out of consideration to the motorists.

-rvb

And there is the whole point of the original conversation, taxes being used for bike lanes and paths. You fortunately have trails or paths near you. I don't, therefore I ride on the street and would appreciate being allowed to ride without being harassed or worse. I do my best to follow the laws, I don't always, I imagine you don't always either. But we are doing what we both feel is best. I try to not cause you undo stress or time-loss and would like the same in return. That guy running red lights downtown, isn't me so please don't punish me for what he does. You see me do something illegal or dangerous, talk to me about it. Please don't yell at me, buzz me for slowing you down for a minute (it is an upper speed limit not minimum), throw things, or run me off the road.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Question.

Is there some unspoken courtesy or something to allow large groups of bicycle riders to ride through a stop sign?

Because a couple years ago, when I stopped at a sign and then drove through on my turn... some bike riders looked at me real indignant-like, as though I did something wrong.

Not that I know of. They just think because they’re on a bike they should be allowed certain privileges the rest of us on the road arent from what I’ve observed.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

So because you are annoyed by slow-moving vehicles, someone else should not use the road legally by riding their bike to work, saving petroleum resources, and staying more healthy? I guess I don't consider it "irresponsible use" to ask you to drive safely even when some of the traffic isn't at your preferred speed.

Do I get annoyed by slow drivers sometimes? yeah but that's only when I didn't leave early enough to begin with. If I give myself plenty of time, being behind a slow vehicle for a while is just part of the realities of life. If they go on for miles and miles, then yes I would like them to find a place to pull over and let traffic by. Never in my life have I driven behind a cyclist that held me up for miles. Even on group rides, there's been a break in the traffic where I can carefully get around after a few minutes.

Isnt there actually a law for vehicles to have to maintain a certain reasonable speed, for obvious safety reasons? Why should a bike using the same road be any different?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So, just in this thread:

Bicyclist: I can do what I want, inconvenience others, reduce road safety by causing back ups, etc. because it's legal.
Also bicyclist: I don't have to stop at stop signs because it's inconvenient and reduces my safety, although I'm legally required to.

I gave up cycling on public roads when I was riding from Freshman parking to campus at U of L and got smoked in an intersection by a guy who ran a stop sign. Share the road, my rights, etc. etc. don't matter diddly when you're airborne but he's just got a dent in his hood.

 

[mensajess]

What is the point of stopping at a stop sign? It is to check for oncoming traffic that may or may not stop whether or not they also have a stop sign and then proceed when clear. At bicycle speed, especially in the country, I can perform that check and proceed without coming to a complete stop. Tomorrow morning I will be on my usual Saturday group ride, we will approach a 4 way stop in the country. We will be heading slightly downhill, so with the high ground. Clear visibility to right, left, and ahead of about 1 mile. If there are no other vehicles present (cars or bikes) we will run the stop sign. Total time about 20 seconds and all 10 or so of us will clear the intersection.

OR

We each stop at the sign and proceed one at a time, as is the law. Everyone stops, unclips, puts a foot down. First person accelerates through the intersection (5 seconds), second guy then goes (5 seconds), etc. Now we are spending a full minute at the intersection, plus the first guy is now waiting on the other side until all are through. So if a car approaches during this time they have to navigate around 10 cyclists taking their time going through an intersection. If the car comes up from behind us, they wait the full minute for us to clear, then have to wait to find a safe place to pass if they are going the same direction we are.

Which option would cause a driver less stress?
Also quick show of hands, who hasn't broken some law once? Speeding, seat belt, lights with wipers, failure to signal, license on person?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The last three sentences are in conflict. By my reading a cyclist only gets respect if they give up their rights and let you pass. No cyclist I know wants even one vehicle behind them, ever. By the same token few cyclists will just stop to let traffic by. Skilled cyclists will manage traffic by not allowing the space for cars to pass until it is safe and then allow cars to pass.

For example a cyclist going up a hill may ride in the left tire track to hold the line, they do so to prevent vehicles from passing when the cannot see. A situation where they would not pass another vehicle because they cannot see, but impatience and the feeling of smallness of the bicycle, and they will try to pass without vision. When that oncoming truck crests the hill does anyone think they will head on the oncoming truck? NO, they will take out the bicyclist.

Most cyclists just want to coexist and get there alive.

M

You've never been to bloomington.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

You obviously don’t get it.

Have you ever pulled up to a stop sign, looked both ways, started to go and notice a car coming you didn’t notice before? Do we only obey laws we feel like obeying? Now you’re using the other cars being inconvenienced by cyclist as your reason for running a stop sign, after 2 pages of reasons why they should have to deal with it?

I think the point we are making is, if you get hit by a car running a stop sign... it sucks. If you get hit by a car on a bicycle... it could be fatal. If saving your 5 seconds a rider is worth those chances to you, why bother carrying a firearm for the chance you might need to save your life? If you’re gonna be careless with your life in one circumstance, what’s the logic in needing a firearm for the chance you need it in another circumstance?

 

[mensajess]

You obviously don’t get it.

Have you ever pulled up to a stop sign, looked both ways, started to go and notice a car coming you didn’t notice before? Do we only obey laws we feel like obeying? Now you’re using the other cars being inconvenienced by cyclist as your reason for running a stop sign, after 2 pages of reasons why they should have to deal with it?

I think the point we are making is, if you get hit by a car running a stop sign... it sucks. If you get hit by a car on a bicycle... it could be fatal. If saving your 5 seconds a rider is worth those chances to you, why bother carrying a firearm for the chance you might need to save your life? If you’re gonna be careless with your life in one circumstance, what’s the logic in needing a firearm for the chance you need it in another circumstance?

I have never advocated running a stop sign in the presence of any cars. Cycling is inherently risky, road cyclists get hit, mountain cyclists might go over a cliff or find a predator, track cyclists wreck in a disturbing fashion. I am OK with the choices I make in my riding. The problem I have is the attitude of "roads are for cars, bikes are in the way"
As posted on page 7 "when cyclists can maintain a reasonable speed and not impede traffic, I will be happy to share the road with them. Instead, when they cause massive backups, force people to try to get around them (especially during busy commute times), etc they have no business on the road.
there. I said it."

 

[Ingomike]

The problem with some bicycle riders is the same as some tractor drivers, leaf lookers, sight seers, combines, and other slow vehicles--yeah, you have the same right as everybody else to use the roadways but when you look back and see people lined up behind you, have a little consideration and let them pass you. You want respect? You have to give it to get it.

I don't get a gun connection. at all. no one is trying to take your bikes away? Maybe because we're advocating for responsible use? Do you like to keep your finger on the trigger?

when I'm trying to get my bicycle to a better place to ride, I throw it in the back of the truck, and get it out when I get there.....

-rvb

"no one is trying to take your bikes away?"

Nope, just saying bikes are second class roadway users and to get the heck out of the way.


Your paragraph rewritten by a fudd: The problem with some gun owners is the same as drivers of cars and other people, yeah, you have the same right as everybody else to have guns but you don't have the right to carry one and scare people, have a little consideration and don't scare people. You want respect? You have to give it to get it.

M

 

[Ingomike]

Isnt there actually a law for vehicles to have to maintain a certain reasonable speed, for obvious safety reasons? Why should a bike using the same road be any different?

There is not a minimum speed for any vehicle. There are even provisions in the Uniform Vehicle Code for driving livestock on the road. That would really upset your tough commute home. LOL

M

 

[Hatin Since 87]

"no one is trying to take your bikes away?"

Nope, just saying bikes are second class roadway users and to get the heck out of the way.


Your paragraph rewritten by a fudd: The problem with some gun owners is the same as drivers of cars and other people, yeah, you have the same right as everybody else to have guns but you don't have the right to carry one and scare people, have a little consideration and don't scare people. You want respect? You have to give it to get it.

M

Keep AND BEAR ARMS. I sure as hell do have a right to carry one, and your feelings don’t supersede my rights. Where’s the constitutional right for a bike? Page 1 of the driving manual “driving is a privilege, not a right”.

Im not saying bikes can’t be on the roadway, I’m saying bikes need to give way to vehicles that are faster. Again, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it illegal for a car to drive under a certain speed for safety reasons? Why aren’t bikes the same?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Also quick show of hands, who hasn't broken some law once? Speeding, seat belt, lights with wipers, failure to signal, license on person?

"It's the law!!!" when convenient. "Laws suck, who cares about laws?" when it's convenient.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

"It's the law!!!" when convenient. "Laws suck, who cares about laws?" when it's convenient.

Sanctuary laws for bicyclist!