Officer kills armed civilian

[Jaybird1980]

That's about what my starting salary was....in 1998.

I get it, I had more school and was in a different profession, but that's not great for what Troopers do. Even in Indiana.

That's mid 20's/hr, plus benefits and retirement, not saying they don't deserve more, but it is definitely a decent living compared to some

 

[drillsgt]

For the responsibility's yes that is pitiful. And are they not requiring a degree of some kind as well.

As long as you have at least a GED you've met the educational standard.

 

[drillsgt]

That's mid 20's/hr, plus benefits and retirement, not saying they don't deserve more, but it is definitely a decent living compared to some

True, for a job that doesn't really require any education or pre-existing skill set I guess it's not bad.

 

[VUPDblue]

If that was a concern why didn't the first trooper when realizing the man was armed and other folks could be inside of the cars / trucks, didn't he get back in his cruiser and use his bullhorn to engage with the dead man and wait for backup?

Because police cars are bullet magnets. Single officers on a scene get the hell out of the car as soon as possible.

 

[cbhausen]

You guys are not seriously contending that, in the dark of night, even if only the rear lights were engaged, they would not be obviously visible to someone in front? Daytime, sure, but at night?

ETA

[video=youtube;AdptwYKp5dI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdptwYKp5dI&t=82s[/video]The lights appear to light up the area quite well.

Until there is evidence that changes things, which there very well could be, this may well be a horrible misunderstanding where it appeared that the guy was going for a gun, but wasn't, or for some reason, the guy may actually have gone for his gun. Either way, at this point, it looks like one of those.

EXACTLY what I was going to write. "Rear deck lights only?" possibly not visible at night is TOTAL BS and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this out.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Did I miss something? His priors were known by the LEO before the incident on question?

 

[HoughMade]

Did I miss something? His priors were known by the LEO before the incident on question?

There's no reason to think that in this case...

...but speaking theoretically, and not about this case, specific priors could clue you into the person's mindset after the fact and make one account more or less plausible than another.

 

[2A_Tom]

I was not implying the officer knew his record. In fact I do not believe the officer had any idea who he was (that is unless he had the information that Righrsell had called to inform that he would be working on the car).

The fact that it was a rental car, meant that he could not have run the plate to see who he was. Therefore he did not have a name that would have informed him that he had an LTCH.

According to the officer he saw a GUN as he drove by.

 

[Butch627]

I have this picture in my mind of the cruiser in the rear, then the disabled car, and the guy on the ground between the front of the disabled car and the rear of his car. I have trouble picturing how the cop could see the guy once he returned to his cruiser unless the guy had traveled some distance from where he was when the encounter started. All I know is if I thought someone was a threat there is no way in hell I would let him out of my sight and still stay close enough for him to re engage me. I take it that these cops do not carry a portable radio or cell phone that they could use for communication and must return to the cruiser? That seems to me to put them in a very dangerous situation.

If he couldn't out draw the officer when he was standing and not wounded how could anyone reasonably expect that a 57 year old guy who is now shot and on the ground was going to draw and shoot his gun faster than the officer could react?

I seldom see less than 2 squad cars when someone around here is pulled over around here and I think all the cops have cell phones on them and most have portable radios. I should edit it to say that I spend a great deal of time around Chicago cops and they all have radios and cell phones on them all the time, I seldom am around LE in Indiana and haven't noticed if they carry portable radios or not.

I readily admit I know nothing about what police are trained to do in such a situation but I would have expected the initial officer to keep a weapon drawn on the guy, call for backup on cell or radio, and then when backup arrived with medics close behind disarm and cuff the 57 year old guy and let the medics have at him. Maybe I watch too much TV.

If the officer did not have a radio or cell on him how long would it take for them to dispatch backup after he made the call about the initial stop and then did not radio back to the dispatcher?

 

[cb46184]

That's about what my starting salary was....in 1998.

I get it, I had more school and was in a different profession, but that's not great for what Troopers do. Even in Indiana.

I don't think what troopers get paid (or anybody as far as that goes) is relavant to the discussion. Everyone who accepts a job does it of their own free will...public servants or otherwise.

 

[Sigblitz]

.

 

[PaulJF]

The initial statement was the trooper retreated to his car as it was dark and Tahoe (disabled vehicle) had tinted windows. The trooper was not sure if there was anyone in the Tahoe that could pose danger to him. It doesn't seem an unreasonable reaction.

 

[HoughMade]

I was not implying the officer knew his record. In fact I do not believe the officer had any idea who he was (that is unless he had the information that Righrsell had called to inform that he would be working on the car).

The fact that it was a rental car, meant that he could not have run the plate to see who he was. Therefore he did not have a name that would have informed him that he had an LTCH.

According to the officer he saw a GUN as he drove by.

...and an out of state car with a guy under the hood of a vehicle the officer had previously marked.

 

[HoughMade]

I don't think what troopers get paid (or anybody as far as that goes) is relavant to the discussion. Everyone who accepts a job does it of their own free will...public servants or otherwise.

OK.

You do know how conversations work, right. Sometimes they're on point, sometimes they stray a little.....

No one said anything about the pay affecting anything in the situation at hand.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Me, three days ago, looking at this brand new thread: Hmm, that could be interesting. I'll check it a bit later to see how it progresses and what sort of conversations are coming out of it.

Me, today, seeing this at 48 pages:

 

[Butch627]

The initial statement was the trooper retreated to his car as it was dark and Tahoe (disabled vehicle) had tinted windows. The trooper was not sure if there was anyone in the Tahoe that could pose danger to him. It doesn't seem an unreasonable reaction.

With all that stacked up against him it would have seemed more prudent for the officer to back up to a safe distance and call for backup rather than approach the scene by himself.

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't think what troopers get paid (or anybody as far as that goes) is relavant to the discussion. Everyone who accepts a job does it of their own free will...public servants or otherwise.

Well... pay does affect the quality of your employees you attract and retain.





Just wanted to "tag" this thread.

 

[Denny347]

I readily admit I know nothing about what police are trained to do in such a situation...BUT

Emphasis mine. I will leave it at this. The crux of why I took the time and now why I have to bail for my sanity's sake. When you insert a "but" in the middle of your statement, you can just ignore the first half as what you were really trying to say comes after. "I understand, BUT..." means you really DON'T understand, or at least not trying to understand and until you remove that, it will never change.

 

[PaulJF]

With all that stacked up against him it would have seemed more prudent for the officer to back up to a safe distance and call for backup rather than approach the scene by himself.

It was a routine encounter with someone who happened to be open carrying...until it wasn't. If the Trooper would have stayed in his vehicle and called in the calvary upon seeing the open carry firearm there would have been people here wailing and moaning over that.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It was a routine encounter with someone who happened to be open carrying...until it wasn't. If the Trooper would have stayed in his vehicle and called in the calvary upon seeing the open carry firearm there would have been people here wailing and moaning over that.

My question is what was the criminal activity that he was originally stopping for. Having a gun is not breaking the law. He already knew the vehicle was there and should of expected someone to be working on it at some point. So unless he was stopping to offer some assistance, which he could been. It's just hard for me to go from, Hey buddy is there anything I can do to help, to shots fired is a big jump