retrofit safe room ideas

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    14 Ga sheet, drill pilot to metal, use a pointed punch on steel, then drive your nail.
    If you want to resist 'Peeling' layer by layer, or removal by decompression force (Tornado), use ring shank nails or screws.
    Common smooth nails can work out from violent vibration, get pulled by decompression, etc.
    Ring shanks fight back, screws you have to pull the head through.

    Takes a heavier duty drive tool for longer screws, and longer screws cost slightly more, but the added resistance to destruction is well worth the longer, more aggressive screws in my opinion.
    I don't nail much together for two reasons, one is screws let you remove and change things around, or move your project entirely,
    The second long screws are so much more secure... You will kick/pry your guts out trying to remove a long screw when it's a piece of cake to pry a slick nail out.

    Ballistic protection isn't just about bullets.

    andrew5thumb.gif


    I know it's a small picture, but that's a piece of 3/4" plywood driven through a palm tree from a tornado created by Hurricane Andrew.
    I'd call that ballistics...
    The brick home 1/2 block away had a bunch of debris laying on the ground, not one hole in the bricks, roof gone, but no holes in the bricks.
    I saw a 2x4 driven all the way through a refrigerator. So much for sheet metal...

    This is where I got VERY interested in building safe rooms...
    Andrew didn't hit us directly, Andrew spun off 700 tornados.

    Common, older 'Red' brick is '4 Square', meaning you can lay two down side by side, then lay to across the first two and it's square.
    Being able to change direction of the brick 'Laces' it together for strength.
    2 bricks thick is as close to 'Fire Proof' as you can get with common materials.
    Sheet steel on the outside for support/deflection of heat, protection for the brick,
    Steel wall studs won't burn & transfer fire inside your safe room, fire resistant drywall in the inside to protect bricks & give a finished appearance.
    Stacked, laced bricks can shift and absorb energy without collapsing/failing for ballistic protection.

    As for security from 'Bad Guys', nothing stops a saw or sledgehammer faster than ceramic bricks.
    One layer mostly straight stacked keeps falling down & filling hole as broken bricks fall out, inside laced layer stays in place.
    Even thin metal makes for slow going trying to 'Peel' since if a saw penetrates even slightly past the sheet metal, the ceramic immedately destroys the saw blade.

    Ballistic protection, The shifting keeps even repeated impacts from making bricks fail.

    The only building adjustment you need to make is wall stud spacing, the spacing needs to fit your brick stack (unless you just really like cutting bricks).
    Keep in mind here that even small carriage bolts (1/4") from outside to inside, all the way trough, prevents peeling off outside layers to get to the brick, and adds support even where there isn't a wall stud.
    (Much like bolts through concrete forms keeps the forms from separating under tremendous, shifting load while concrete is being vibrated into place)

    The one COMMON thing that survives fires, tornados, etc is brick.
    Bricks with (weight lightening) holes in them can have simple, common rebar dropped into those holes.
    An inch thick rebar will stop a lot of bad trying to get in...
     
    Last edited:

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    There's two doors I'm looking at:
    Smith Safe's standard door
    SnapSafe's vault door

    The former is solid w/ a 1/4" steel face, the latter is only 12 ga. (which seems way too thin...)
     

    GIJEW

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Mar 14, 2009
    2,716
    47
    IMO:twocents: the safe room/bunker you're describing is more practical as a tornado shelter.

    *You'll have some advance notice, and time to get there in the event of a tornado; in case of a home invasion, you won't. Likewise, your floor joists won't handle the weight if you try to build upstairs--in either location you'd have to worry about either the floor or ceiling being bullet-proof.

    *Safes are great for stopping "smash&grab" thieves but as you pointed out, it's really hard to stop those who have time&tools. Aside from an alarm, I think concealment is an easier and more reliable means of preventing theft. I've seen ads for shelves with drop-down compartments and safes set in what look like pull-out couches--and there's also the hidden-in-the-wall-compartment

    *IDK but if a tornado pulls your house off the foundation, it's moving on from there and what you're having to protect against is flying debris at that point.
    I would guess that several layers of plywood would do that job. If you want the added protection of masonry without the weight, it seems like cinder block, left hollow, with plywood walls on either side, should stop any flying debris. That obviously won't be practical for the ceiling, but maybe a "laminate" of plywood and chain-link-fence?
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    IMO:twocents: the safe room/bunker you're describing is more practical as a tornado shelter.
    Yup. Consider it a tornado shelter that would take a lot of work for a human to breech. It will stop any opportunistic thieves with basic tools (like the ones in my garage), but serious thief could breech it. After that, you then have to deal with the gun safe inside the room.

    In addition, with two layers of type X drywall, it will have fire resistance, so I will store paperwork, data servers, photograph, fireworks...


    Again, not looking for anything bulletproof, because should I need that, I'd be shooting back, not trying to run to the other side of the house, down the stairs, across the basement...

    It will be built to FEMA 320 spec, with some upgrade to hinder humans.

    I'm purchasing the rest of the material tonight (11% rebate at Menards!), and I decided to go with the Smith Safe lightweight door, which has a 3/16" skin.



    Oh, and gee thanks Trump - steel prices shot up since I did my initial estimates. :xmad:
     

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
    Rating - 100%
    99   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    3,750
    113
    Grant County
    I am interested in what happens with the door when you get it. I have a room already at the new house. But I need a front on it.

    Was going to block and rebar it and add a steel framed door... but they aren't that tough top defeat.
     

    Sailor

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    May 5, 2008
    3,716
    48
    Fort Wayne
    I would spend the money just hiding the room. Then spend a tiny bit on proper insurance to cover the contents.

    If I am in it and people are trying to break in, well I don't want the walls bullet proof, because they are never going to make it in.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I am interested in what happens with the door when you get it. I have a room already at the new house. But I need a front on it.

    Was going to block and rebar it and add a steel framed door... but they aren't that tough top defeat.

    If the room is just a beefed up closet, look at Horanady's SnapSafe door. It's 12 ga., digital lock, inswing, and with shipping is $1150.

    If it's concrete, then that door would be pretty weak in comparison.


    Sportsman Steel makes a high quality door, I believe.
     

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
    Rating - 100%
    99   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    3,750
    113
    Grant County
    Room is dug out from the basement. Block walls on three sides with a poured cement ceiling. Has a tunnel for egress but I need the fourth wall and a door of course.

    Plan is to rebar into the floor and lay block up to the ceiling. House was built after Palm Sunday tornado and the insurance company made the owner do a lot of special tweaks to make the place a bit safer.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Room is dug out from the basement. Block walls on three sides with a poured cement ceiling. Has a tunnel for egress but I need the fourth wall and a door of course.

    Plan is to rebar into the floor and lay block up to the ceiling. House was built after Palm Sunday tornado and the insurance company made the owner do a lot of special tweaks to make the place a bit safer.

    So, is there an easy way to use backhoe or crane to drop in a door? If not, don't ask me for help lifting... you're looking for a 1/2 ton door if you want to match the strength of those other walls. I assume there's a footing where that fourth wall should be.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I would spend the money just hiding the room. Then spend a tiny bit on proper insurance to cover the contents.

    If I am in it and people are trying to break in, well I don't want the walls bullet proof, because they are never going to make it in.

    In the computer world, "security through obscurity" is a poor substitution for real security.


    Plus, you ever try and play hide and seek with fire? Somehow it always wins.
     

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
    Rating - 100%
    99   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    3,750
    113
    Grant County
    So, is there an easy way to use backhoe or crane to drop in a door? If not, don't ask me for help lifting... you're looking for a 1/2 ton door if you want to match the strength of those other walls. I assume there's a footing where that fourth wall should be.

    Don't need to match them, just want enough to keep debris from a tornado and maybe zombies out.

    Easy to get to it. Right now all is open as there is a walk out garage. Once the rest of the house is rehabbed there will be a long hallway on the same level.

    The room was built tough, but with one wall open to the world there is an obvious flaw.

    Going to look at the Snap Safe door, just to see how it works. Need to have access from both sides, so if it is just a safe door that won't work.

    EDIT: It has a handle on the inside as well. Amazing the info you can find when you actually look
     
    Last edited:

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Updates:
    Whatever you do, be very very careful on what you may drive/secure into the slab floor. If you have a pre-stressed floor and you sever one of the rebars, you're gonna have a bad time.

    I don't know how common that kind of slab is, however. If you know the builder, maybe contact them and ask that question before you go lagging anything into the slab!
    I never hit any rebar, but the slab is only 4" thick.

    And, drilling 5/8" holes sucks! I had to drill 10, plus another six 1/2" holes.

    Can you even use a framing nailer on 14 ga. sheet steel?

    If not, then I guess you just use a ton of self-drilling screws. Is there a way to make those screw un-removable? Maybe coat them with something?

    A small drop of Gorilla Glue renders torx screw heads irremovable.
     

    Dead Duck

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    53   0   0
    Apr 1, 2011
    14,062
    113
    .
    Just watch out for rebar.... in general.

    I was installing some crazy ornate ironwork to an existing perimeter fence which consisted of large 8 foot tall square columns 10 feet apart with curved top brick walls connecting them all. I was standing on top of one of these columns drilling mounting holes straight down all hunched over. I had hit some rebar days before but was able to control the drill. I had the monster Hilti with the big handle.

    So I ended up hitting rebar again but this time the bit stops cold. The drill spins and sweeps my feet so fast I had no time to react. I remember floating through the air seeing all the pretty clouds and thinking 'Was this column next to the concrete or the grass?" I landed on the softest patch of grass you'd ever felt. Not a scratch on me. Nobody saw it and I didn't tell a soul. (except me brother)

    Just be careful. :n00b:
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,558
    113
    Fort Wayne
    It's finally done! :rockwoot:

    I picked up the door and with the help of three other guys and a dolly, it's installed.


    Screw getting a boat, I have a vault!


    PS - I dug up the original thread here. It seems I started pining for this vault as soon as I moved into the house.
     
    Top Bottom