Just Why Are Guns Used In Serious Crimes Ordered Destroyed?

[Ingomike]

The topic of destroying guns used in crimes, particularly murder, being ordered destroyed has been brought up in recent threads.

What is the backstory on this?

Why did the practice start?

If a stolen gun is used why does the owner lose their property?

Is this a Constitutional "taking"?

What if it is a particularly valuable or historic firearm?

Hoping for some keen insight here...

MM

 

[Hkindiana]

The topic of destroying guns used in crimes, particularly murder, being ordered destroyed has been brought up in recent threads.

What is the backstory on this?

Why did the practice start?

If a stolen gun is used why does the owner lose their property?

Is this a Constitutional "taking"?

What if it is a particularly valuable or historic firearm?

Hoping for some keen insight here...

MM

In a similar note, I remember going on a tour of the FBI headquarters in 1978. They showed us a room full of weapons, including many collectible weapons like Lugars and Garands. The FBI tour guide said that all of the weapons had been taken from criminals in the last week. I asked what would become of tne weapons, and he said that they would be destroyed. I suggested that the collectible weapons be auctioned off to help decrease the governments tax debt. I will NEVER forget his answer: "The FBI is in the business of disarming people, and not arming them"!!!!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If a stolen gun is used why does the owner lose their property?

Who says they do?

 

[bwframe]

Who says they do?

IMPD property room?

 

[Leadeye]

I think it's more of a political/ideological thing with leadership. Years ago, the MCSD used to auction off guns and while most of them weren't what I would call collectables, there were some diamonds in the gravel.

 

[HoughMade]

Bad juju?

 

[Leadeye]

Bad juju?

Maybe.

I've still got a few from the old auctions, never have had any strange feelings when I get them out to shoot.

 

[ghuns]

Once a gun gets a taste for human blood, you gotta put it down?

 

[Leadeye]

This came out of a MCSD auction in the 80s, a Colt commercial gun from 1924. It hurts to think that these things are being destroyed now.

 

[cce1302]

I don't know what the history is, but the reason is clear: because the people who order them destroyed believe that "guns are the problem."

 

[BugI02]

Yep, we 'rehabilitate' the criminals and destroy the guns. Maybe we should try that the other way round

 

[ghuns]

Yep, we 'rehabilitate' the criminals and destroy the guns. Maybe we should try that the other way round

Rehabilitating guns is cheaper, and more effective.

 

[Jt22453]

Johnson County still has seized gun auctions. Not sure if the ones involved in serious crimes are destroyed but they don’t destroy them all. I know if your guns get stolen, good luck getting them back unless the perp is a total idiot. When it happened to me the only ones I got back are the ones I found myself. 3 out of 19.

 

[BugI02]

Rehabilitating guns is cheaper, and more effective.

"The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem."

*.*

 

[Denny347]

Ask the Judge who orders it destroyed. If it is stolen, they are returned (albeit delayed) to the owner.

 

[JeepHammer]

I just asked a State Trooper friend of mine...

Stolen firearms are returned to owners *IF* they weren't used in a crime (other than possession of the stolen gun).
Example, found when serving search warrants, car searches, but weren't part of the crime they were investigating.
This depends on the owners providing serial numbers when reporting firearms stolen...

*IF* the stolen guns were used in a NON-HEINOUS crime, they are evidence and are held as evidence until the criminal has been tried, and his appeals exhausted, then the owner has an opportunity to recover his property with proof of ownership.
He says that can be YEARS since the criminal has several appeal options, and appeals move S-L-O-W-L-Y.
An appeal might get a re-trial and the firearm will still be evidence.
Again, this depends on the owner reporting the firearm stolen & providing serial number.

Heinous crimes (legal wording) in Indiana, murder/attempted murder, robbery, rape, arson, home/residence burglars/ home invasion, car-jacking, drug dealing (not simple possession), etc.
Heinous crime firearms will stay in evidence/case file until all appeals are exhausted and then destroyed by law.
The exemption here is if the firearms were stolen from your home during commission of the crime.
They use it in the next heinous crime, and it's gone.
He did say a judge can specifically order the firearm returned to legal owner, but from what he knows that's rare, usually collector firearms owned by people that can afford a lawyer to petition the court for return.

Keep in mind that a whopping 94% of stolen firearms nation wide (Indiana being no exception) the owner can't provide a serial number when reporting the firearms stolen initially, or provide documentation/serial number for the police report after the firearms are stolen.
No proof of ownership, the firearm is often destroyed, but some are auctioned/sold.

That means 94% (+/-) can't be returned to rightful owners simply because the rightful owner simply can't be found without a serial number connection between firearm & rightful owner...

And there aren't any records kept of stolen firearms not reported stolen... (Common sense)

No national searchable database, no way to determine the owner when it was stolen. (Federal Law)

He also says it's not the State Police job to ferret out the last legal owner when it wasn't reported stolen, or the last legal owner didn't provide a serial number when reported stolen (or even after the initial report, with proof).
And I agree with that, simply not their problem the owner wasn't smart enough to record serial numbers.

In Indiana, 'Proof Of Ownership' can be the police report when the firearm was reported stolen IF YOU HAVE THE SERIAL NUMBER, no receipt necessary. It's real easy in Indiana...

You can't walk in and 'Claim' firearms after the initial police report, without a receipt or copy of FFL form with serial number at the time of purchase, which you can get after the fact from the dealer.

It's on YOU to know that serial number.

The only exemption he could think of is if you engraved your SSN or name in the firearm, and you still didn't have the serial number/receipt/copy of dealer sheet.

He wasn't sure what local police departments did with unclaimed firearms, he knows some sell/auction and some destroy.

 

[JeepHammer]

This thread brings up a memory...
A guy shot his own daughter sneaking back into the house after a night out, mistaking her for a burglar.

When all the legal stuff was said & done, the police tried several times to get him to come pickup the firearm...

I can't imagine wanting the firearm back after shooting my own family member with it, that had to be torture everytime the police called or sent him a letter...
Some people just don't want them back.

 

[bwframe]

So just to be clear, a photo of a serial number is adequate to show ownership for a firearms return in Indiana, correct?

 

[eldirector]

Heinous crimes (legal wording) in Indiana, murder/attempted murder, robbery, rape, arson, home/residence burglars/ home invasion, car-jacking, drug dealing (not simple possession), etc.
Heinous crime firearms will stay in evidence/case file until all appeals are exhausted and then destroyed by law.

Any citations for this? I certainly can't find any.

Heinous only appears in the IC once, and not in this context.

What I do find is:
Indiana Code 2018 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session
Disposition of property held as evidence; records

and more specifically:
Indiana Code 2018 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session
Chapter 14. Proceedings for the Seizure and Retention of a Firearm

and
Indiana Code 2018 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session
Chapter 3. Disposal of Confiscated Weapons



Basically, (and this is super-summarized - the above is pages of IC) they can return them to their rightful owner if possible (and they can legally own it and are not "dangerous"), and if they can't, then sell, transfer to another dept., or have destroyed. All of this has specific timing (X number of days for this, Y number of years for that) attached.

But, back to the original question, I suspect that "guns used in serious crimes" are destroyed because they belonged to a person who is now a felon, and can't own it. The PD doesn't want the overhead of dealing with it, so they send it to the shredder with the rest of the no-longer-needed evidence.

 

[JeepHammer]

From what my buddy said, you just have to have the serial when you report the firearm stolen.
You need documentation if you don't have the serial at the time of the report.

Its not a deal for me, the first thing I do is record serial anytime I bring a new one home. My insurance requirees serial & pictures.

Having a 'Friend' to check the number on the 'Hot List' before I buy comes in handy, but he says about anyone can call the police and have a serial run on the 'Hot List', it will depend on how lazy your local PD is on how quick they get back to you.