School Resource Officer

[ArcadiaGP]

Would you or I engage.

That's the thing, I don't know how much of a hero I am. Or how willing I am to sacrifice my life for others, until I'm put to that test.

I think cops in these "terrorist" situations, if they choose not to engage, should be held to a reasonable standard like any other gun owner.

One attacker... regardless of the weapon (WMDs aside)... yes, I think any cop should be reasonably expected to engage to attempt to stop the threat.

Two dudes with knives... alright, sure... probably worth the risk.

Three automatic weapons? I dunno... we're getting to a point where a cop, even with the element of surprise, might just be throwing themselves to the fire.

 

[churchmouse]

That's the thing, I don't know how much of a hero I am. Or how willing I am to sacrifice my life for others, until I'm put to that test.

I think cops in these "terrorist" situations, if they choose not to engage, should be held to a reasonable standard like any other gun owner.

One attacker... regardless of the weapon (WMDs aside)... yes, I think any cop should be reasonably expected to engage to attempt to stop the threat.

Two dudes with knives... alright, sure... probably worth the risk.

Three automatic weapons? I dunno... we're getting to a point where a cop, even with the element of surprise, might just be throwing themselves to the fire.

Good argument. How will we pass the test. Will we pass it. Can you engage. Kut has mentioned a few times that even some LEO just will not engage. To me, JMHO, If you take the oath you damn well better be ready to lay it all down.

We all come up different paths. Some folks go their entire life with not so much as a fist fight. Others seem to be surrounded by conflict.

If I am armed, and 3 men are entering the school regardless what they are carrying I am slipping up on them and doing what I can to ruin their day. That is just my general mind set. I am not so sure would not find a way even if I were not armed. In this I am pretty sure.

That a man that took the oath could stand down is to me the lowest form of cowardice. Again, JMHO.
If you or any other civilian chose not to engage that would be in my mind completely understandable. I may not agree but I do understand.

It is so easy after all the time has passed and facts are out to be seen and discussed for us to armchair this.

 

[Doug]

Nobody knows what decision they will make in that instant unless they have already thought it through and made the decision ahead of time.

I have and I'm going in.
It is a sad commentary when unarmed teenagers have more courage than an armed police officer and are more effective than he at stopping the killing. Yes, sometimes people die trying to resist a murderer. They would rather die fighting than die begging; so would I.

Mass shootings are not done by trained, committed combat troops in groups of ten with automatic weapons. They are done by confused, emotionally weak, abused children with no concept of self restraint. They collapse under pressure. Pressure should be applied to stop them.

 

[churchmouse]

Nobody knows what decision they will make in that instant unless they have already thought it through and made the decision ahead of time.

I have and I'm going in.
It is a sad commentary when unarmed teenagers have more courage than an armed police officer and are more effective than he at stopping the killing. Yes, sometimes people die trying to resist a murderer. They would rather die fighting than die begging; so would I.

Mass shootings are not done by trained, committed combat troops in groups of ten with automatic weapons. They are done by confused, emotionally weak, abused children with no concept of self restraint. They collapse under pressure. Pressure should be applied to stop them.

+10

 

[VUPDblue]

At some point, how do you punish someone for not dying?

Look, I don't like the guy because he pussied out. But jailing someone for not committing suicide is the slope this is on.

What if there's a cop outside the school, and he sees 10 men with automatic rifles walk in. Should he try to engage? Should he be punished if he doesn't?

It's an odd thing to judge. "Oh you coulda made a difference" definitely has a line at some point.

I have 120 rounds of 5.56 and 69 rounds of 9mm in my duty load-out. If there's shenanigans in a school, I'm going in. Period. But that's my choice, and I don't think anyone should be jailed for NOT going in. Unemployed, definitely, but not have their freedom stripped.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I have 120 rounds of 5.56 and 69 rounds of 9mm in my duty load-out. If there's shenanigans in a school, I'm going in. Period. But that's my choice, and I don't think anyone should be jailed for NOT going in. Unemployed, definitely, but not have their freedom stripped.

Given that he signed on for the purpose of standing between the innocent and the predator, I will go along with not jailing him if we also do not jail any parents who feel compelled to cure his breathing problem.

 

[rhino]

I have 120 rounds of 5.56 and 69 rounds of 9mm in my duty load-out. If there's shenanigans in a school, I'm going in. Period. But that's my choice, and I don't think anyone should be jailed for NOT going in. Unemployed, definitely, but not have their freedom stripped.

You need more ammo!

 

[Cameramonkey]

Don't forget instructing others to do likewise.

I think this is the kicker. As others have indicated, maybe not jail, but F*** no on the pension. That's for heroes injured in the line of duty. Had he advanced and been wounded, hells yes he deserves that pension. But not this time.

I have 120 rounds of 5.56 and 69 rounds of 9mm in my duty load-out. If there's shenanigans in a school, I'm going in. Period. But that's my choice, and I don't think anyone should be jailed for NOT going in. Unemployed, definitely, but not have their freedom stripped.

Not 70? slacker.

I have no doubt you would rush the building with just one mag on your belt the and toothpick from your lunch as a backup. This dude was a coward who also ordered other arriving officers to also be cowards. Why I have no idea.

 

[Brad69]

.

 

[VUPDblue]

Given that he signed on for the purpose of standing between the innocent and the predator, I will go along with not jailing him if we also do not jail any parents who feel compelled to cure his breathing problem.

I do not necessarily agree with that. I don't think that every cop who dons the uniform does so with the intention of trading a life for a life. I think that colloquially we expect that of all of them, but I don't believe that is possible or reasonable.

You need more ammo!

Then I'll need you to carry it for me!

 

[churchmouse]

I do not necessarily agree with that. I don't think that every cop who dons the uniform does so with the intention of trading a life for a life. I think that colloquially we expect that of all of them, but I don't believe that is possible or reasonable.

There is truth here. Both statements.
End him, no as Kut said.
I have openly stated my opinion up thread but reality is always looming.



Then I'll need you to carry it for me!

Sure.

 

[jamil]

I sympathize with the position, but what does jailing the guy accomplish, other than making people feel good? Is this guy a threat to society? Could the cell he occupies be better used. Let him live out his day with a yellow streak on his back, but as a free man, shunned in the public eye.

This.

People are angry, and rightly so. He didn’t do his job when it came right down to it, and likely more people were killed because he didn’t do what he could to stop it. Some people run towards danger to help others, while most people run away from it.

We hope that police are the former types and not the latter. But sometimes you don’t know until you know. That day he found out what kind of man he is. Does he deserve hanged? For being like most humans, but in the wrong job for his temperament?

 

[jamil]

I think this is the kicker. As others have indicated, maybe not jail, but F*** no on the pension. That's for heroes injured in the line of duty. Had he advanced and been wounded, hells yes he deserves that pension. But not this time.

No, that’s not the purpose of pensions. When you sign up to be a cop, I doubt there’s a “hero” clause. If the contract provides for it, and he’s been employed the required time, his pension is vested. A pension is an employee benefit.

Not 70? slacker.

I have no doubt you would rush the building with just one mag on your belt the and toothpick from your lunch as a backup. This dude was a coward who also ordered other arriving officers to also be cowards. Why I have no idea.

With just one mag? Hell, he has boots. Who needs boolets?

Seriously, you can’t really order someone else to be a coward. People are or aren’t cowards. Most people are and you don’t find out until you find out. It was reported that cops from other departments showed up, and they went in anyway.

 

[rhino]

I have no doubt you would rush the building with just one mag on your belt the and toothpick from your lunch as a backup. This dude was a coward who also ordered other arriving officers to also be cowards. Why I have no idea.

It's possible that he was defaulting to the old paradigm of "securing a perimeter" until SWAT arrived. That's not an excuse, but it's a possible "why."

 

[jamil]

It's possible that he was defaulting to the old paradigm of "securing a perimeter" until SWAT arrived. That's not an excuse, but it's a possible "why."

That’s how it was initially reported as I recall.

 

[KellyinAvon]

It's possible that he was defaulting to the old paradigm of "securing a perimeter" until SWAT arrived. That's not an excuse, but it's a possible "why."

That was SOP before Columbine, 20 Apr 1999. Plenty of blame to go around here. Jim Lucas paraphrased the Parkland report with a timeline at the Statehouse last session. Plenty of blame to go around for those who should have been part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[HoughMade]

I'll just say this about the criminal charges.

Everyone claims that we can't legislate morality...until their own morality gets violated and then we want to put people in jail.

Which is it?

 

[Dead Duck]

I'll just say this about the criminal charges.

Everyone claims that we can't legislate morality...until their own morality gets violated and then we want to put people in jail.

Which is it?

I don't want him to do any jail time.
I want him publicly executed alone with all the other idiots responsible. My morality is strong and intact.

 

[Trigger Time]

Inwas happy to see this ****bag arrested. I really hope they have a case and can convict him.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'll just say this about the criminal charges.

Everyone claims that we can't legislate morality...until their own morality gets violated and then we want to put people in jail.

Which is it?

The tail can't wag the dog. Cultural morals are put into law. Laws don't establish cultural morals.

Our "culture" such as it is, at this point, is such a hodge-podge of jibberish and "my truth" that legislating morality may very well be a thing of the past.