Pence: Indiana’s red flag law could serve as blueprint...rest of the country

[KellyinAvon]

Lol, Ok, what am I missing?

2020 legislative thread, house bill 1152

 

[jamil]

2020 legislative thread, house bill 1152

That would be a big improvement

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Okay, real life experience (tangentially) with Indiana's red flag law...

Someone's brother was drunk and depressed after a bitter divorce. He was threatening suicide. The brother's sister went to her brother's house and he did in fact have a handgun out and appeared to be ready to use it to do just that. Sister gets the gun away from him and throws it out into the front yard and calls the police. Police came, and found the gun and arrested the brother and took the gun then and there. He also had other guns in his house.

After going to jail (and court) he was ordered to surrender his firearms until such time that he was evaluated and adjudicated to no longer be a threat to himself or others. After court-ordered therapy and psychological evaluation, he was given the "all clear" and his guns were returned to him. All told, the entire process probably took somewhere around 4 to 6 months (IIRC - might have even been less time).

To me, this seems like the proper use of the red flag law, and I have no problem in how it was administered.

FWIW, this occurred in Johnson County. Not sure if the timeline would have been longer in Marion County.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Okay, real life experience (tangentially) with Indiana's red flag law...

Someone's brother was drunk and depressed after a bitter divorce. He was threatening suicide. The brother's sister went to her brother's house and he did in fact have a handgun out and appeared to be ready to use it to do just that. Sister gets the gun away from him and throws it out into the front yard and calls the police. Police came, and found the gun and arrested the brother and took the gun then and there. He also had other guns in his house.

After going to jail (and court) he was ordered to surrender his firearms until such time that he was evaluated and adjudicated to no longer be a threat to himself or others. After court-ordered therapy and psychological evaluation, he was given the "all clear" and his guns were returned to him. All told, the entire process probably took somewhere around 4 to 6 months (IIRC - might have even been less time).

To me, this seems like the proper use of the red flag law, and I have no problem in how it was administered.

FWIW, this occurred in Johnson County. Not sure if the timeline would have been longer in Marion County.

Arrested for what?

 

[Denny347]

I asked what I asked. It's the same questions that continually go unanswered;

Who is deciding whether an accused Indiana red flaw violator has all of their firearms confiscated or not? Is it a judge or is it the officer sent to investigate?

If the answer is the officer, is that actually due process or is it not?

Those seem like simple questions to me?

JUST like when I deprive a person of their freedom, a Judge. I can detain and arrest a person without a warrant but the PC is reviewed by a judge and a hearing is set. If you meet the definition of a dangerous person under that IC, you get ID'ed (Immediate Detention). Placed into handcuffs and forced to the hospital, it's a civil detention that a judge does not review, only doctors. However, if I confiscate a firearm during the course of that ID, a Judge WILL review the seizure. This law does NOT circumvent search and seizure case law. This is NOT a warrantless exception to a search. If I have to go looking for guns without consent, I need a warrant. We were seizing firearms from dangerous people for decades but had no mechanism to keep them if warranted. This law added that mechanism...through a judge and a hearing.

 

[Trigger Time]

Yeach if I got caught poop throwing my congregation might not donate enough for me to buy a another car or gold plated toilet.

I guess I’ll stick with not coming into contact with LEO’s on a unfavorable level thus having them enact the “red flag law”!

I wonder if a siren or buzzer goes off like the “bat phone” for a Judge to decide a red flag situation?

Right. No contact with LEO's is best for your life.
No offense intended towards you guys who are cops. I dont mean community events or personal interactions. You all are some great trautworthy people and that means a lot.
I mean, in a professional context. Those who have police meetings regularly are cruising for a bruising (metaphorically)

 

[jamil]

Right. No contact with LEO's is best for your life.
No offense intended towards you guys who are cops. I dont mean community events or personal interactions. You all are some great trautworthy people and that means a lot.
I mean, in a professional context. Those who have police meetings regularly are cruising for a [STRIKE]bruising[/STRIKE] curb-stomping (metaphorically)

FIFY. If you’re gonna use a metaphor, it might as well be in-character.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Arrested for what?

Maybe "arrested" wasn't the right term. "Taken into custody" might have been a better term, and I assume being drunk, disorderly and suicidal was the reason.

 

[HoughMade]

[edit]

Sorry....I had to remove my earlier post.

I should know better than to post about civil lawsuits in NWI

Update to this coming soon.

 

[HoughMade]

Context:

https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...ttorneys-murderer-cites-indianas-red-flag-law

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...files-suit-under-indiana-red-flag-law/126186/

C'mon now:

https://www.journalreview.com/stori...dge-to-dismiss-wrongful-death-lawsuit,101539?

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local...cle_01b5a685-cb1f-5bd7-94dc-eb652a688428.html

Today, the case against the children (which cited the red flag law) was dismissed. There may yet be an appeal or an amended complaint, but this is a positive step.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Context:

https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...ttorneys-murderer-cites-indianas-red-flag-law

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...files-suit-under-indiana-red-flag-law/126186/

C'mon now:

https://www.journalreview.com/stori...dge-to-dismiss-wrongful-death-lawsuit,101539?

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local...cle_01b5a685-cb1f-5bd7-94dc-eb652a688428.html

Today, the case against the children (which cited the red flag law) was dismissed. There may yet be an appeal or an amended complaint, but this is a positive step.

Interesting. Was this an attempt to legislate or just a play for a settlement?

 

[HoughMade]

Interesting. Was this an attempt to legislate or just a play for a settlement?

If by "legislate" you mean create a brand new cause of action, I would say that was the goal.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If by "legislate" you mean create a brand new cause of action, I would say that was the goal.

Yeah, that’s what I meant. I was curious. I really figured it was about getting money.

 

[HoughMade]

Yeah, that’s what I meant. I was curious. I really figured it was about getting money.

Every civil lawsuit is about money, but step 1 to getting it in this case from the kids is creating a new cause of action.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Every civil lawsuit is about money, but step 1 to getting it in this case from the kids is creating a new cause of action.

Fair enough. From what I read, I’m glad the kids were able to get it tossed before being faced with the choice of settle or spend tons of bucks defending against it.

 

[jamil]

If by "legislate" you mean create a brand new cause of action, I would say that was the goal.

That sure is what it smells like.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;VMi0z51c3HY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMi0z51c3HY[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

I general avoid listening to people ranting on YouTube, but I'll make an exception for Colin.

[video=youtube;VMi0z51c3HY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMi0z51c3HY[/video]

Welp, a decent lot of anecdotal evidence, thumbsucking, red herrings, false descriptions of how things work (at least here in Indiana), and general lack of evidence.



His argument is insightful, as Red Flag laws must be used correctly, but all of these arguments are, "This could be abused, therefore we can't allow it." That's all I ever hear, and that generally a poor argument from any standpoint. (i.e. guns can be abused, we can't allow them)


I'm still waiting to see all these abuses of the law, Relford says it happens, and I'm inclined to believe him*, but nothing's been made public.


In this thread or another, I did post a study pointing that there's not a link to Red Flag laws and reduction in homicides, but a link in reducing suicides. Sadly, Colin doesn't present any data, but more of the same hypothesis about what could happen. These laws are over a decade old in some states, yet in 2020 he's giving the same arguments as we've heard for a decade. Why? (Always follow the money)




* Note, he is a defense attorney, so a grain of salt should be taken (always follow the money).

 

[9lock]

So go hide several just in case it happens to you. I hear people have been red flagged because some liberal seen them walking around walmart with a gun on their side. That's nuts and that is why I'm totally against red flag laws.

Yes this has happened to me several times in public, It would seem a cell phone is More dangerous than a firearm, then you get a cop pointing a gun at you avoiding the rule never point a gun at people, handcuffs then they leave you with your firearm disassembled unarmed in public with bullets' everywhere, my hero's.

Another feller here mentioned watching what you say anywhere! period! "thought crime?" which pretty much waters down the 1st Amendment.

What you don't see is the bigger picture, this red flag nonsense is a wholesale attack on liberties which tramples right over 1 through 10 in the bill of rights.

These monsters DO NOT WANT "Unity" in this country They don't want it! They want suspicion, calling 911 on each other inducing Xenophobia. These are the very building blocks that got BOTH my grandfathers sent over seas to fight against during WWII.

​

 

[Vigilant]

I general avoid listening to people ranting on YouTube, but I'll make an exception for Colin.

Welp, a decent lot of anecdotal evidence, thumbsucking, red herrings, false descriptions of how things work (at least here in Indiana), and general lack of evidence.



His argument is insightful, as Red Flag laws must be used correctly, but all of these arguments are, "This could be abused, therefore we can't allow it." That's all I ever hear, and that generally a poor argument from any standpoint. (i.e. guns can be abused, we can't allow them)


I'm still waiting to see all these abuses of the law, Relford says it happens, and I'm inclined to believe him*, but nothing's been made public.


In this thread or another, I did post a study pointing that there's not a link to Red Flag laws and reduction in homicides, but a link in reducing suicides. Sadly, Colin doesn't present any data, but more of the same hypothesis about what could happen. These laws are over a decade old in some states, yet in 2020 he's giving the same arguments as we've heard for a decade. Why? (Always follow the money)




* Note, he is a defense attorney, so a grain of salt should be taken (always follow the money).

Sadly, you’re so totally off base that you may as well be one of those that 2nd Amendment advocates despise. It is either a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, or it’s not! I can’t red flag your freedom of speech, no matter how stupid you sound, so?