Minneapolis PD in the news again

[rooster]

Well Minneapolis has done it again. This time with a no knock raid gone bad. Man who was killed was not the subject of the warrant, legally possessed the gun that he reached for during the 10 seconds between the door being opened and his being shot.

Minneapolis police release body camera footage of fatal shooting of Black man, 22, during no-knock warrant

Amir Locke was fatally shot by a SWAT team officer during an early morning no-knock raid Wednesday. Police said he was shot after officers saw he had a gun in his hand.

www.google.com

Body cam footage



Only question I’ve got for INGO is , If this were you would you still be alive?

 

[phylodog]

How many times do they have to say "police"? What's the minimum? 50? How long should they stand still, yelling "police" while someone comes out from under a blanket with a pistol in their hand? 10 seconds? 20? 30?

"legally possessed the gun" - as if that has anything to do with the justification of the shooting. Typical leftist tactic, grow up.

 

[phylodog]

"The news release of the incident describes the handgun as "pointed in the direction of the officer." However, in the footage it's not clear if the gun was pointing at an officer."

Moronic bull . How many degrees off of top dead center of my face does the barrel have to come within before I can defend myself? is 15* enough? Maybe that's too much, 5*? You know, just to make things fair I suppose.

I know if I was granted a no knock search warrant for someone in connection with a murder investigation I'm not going to be expecting kittens and ice cream on the other side of the door. It means you're dealing with a dangerous person. When you make entry and someone starts to come out from under a blanket with a handgun muzzle moving toward you, is that the appropriate time to ask for a government issued form of identification?

Just asking questions here.

 

[BigRed]

Only question I’ve got for INGO is , If this were you would you still be alive?

Unknown folks barging into the house uninvited?

In all probability, yes.

The claymores would have gone off well before anybody got that far.

 

[Route 45]

 

[Onebad06vtx]

Man who was killed was not the subject of the warrant, legally possessed the gun that he reached for during the 10 seconds.
Wrong house?
How many of you would have no reaction If I barged in on you and your in a deep sleep?
These suspects have to go out in public,take them down then.
There is nothing good that will come from barging in behind closed doors.
A innocent person was killed here,could have been you or me.
People should go to jail for this.
This person was innocent,many screw ups here!

 

[MCgrease08]

I know if I was granted a no knock search warrant for someone in connection with a murder investigation I'm not going to be expecting kittens and ice cream on the other side of the door. It means you're dealing with a dangerous person.

Does this all apply if those serving the warrant are at the wrong house?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

How many times do they have to say "police"? What's the minimum? 50? How long should they stand still, yelling "police" while someone comes out from under a blanket with a pistol in their hand? 10 seconds? 20? 30?

"legally possessed the gun" - as if that has anything to do with the justification of the shooting. Typical leftist tactic, grow up.

Phylo, I'll agree the shooting appears to be justified. That doesn't necessarily make it a good shoot. How long does it take you to wake up from a deep sleep if someone is yelling and kicks the couch you're sleeping on? And recognize what they are saying? It seemed to me to be about 6-7 seconds from when they started to yell to shots fired. If I'm sleeping pretty soundly it will almost guaranteed take me longer than that before I start comprehending what's being shouted.

Whether the no knock was justified, I have no idea. I will say IMO that they have been overused in the past, no idea on current.

I will say it appears that Locke had some training at least, it looks like he has his finger indexed along the slide rather than on the trigger. If that's ingrained enough to do it while waking up, he's probably has some experience.

 

[phylodog]

Does this all apply if those serving the warrant are at the wrong house?

That is a different issue. I'm not saying what happened here isn't tragic or unfortunate. I'm not saying the warrant was valid and justified. I don't have that info, all I'm saying is that if you point a gun at the police you can expect to get shot. I suspect there aren't many here who would allow me to point a handgun at them without a significant reaction.

If the address doesn't match the warrant that is a huge issue. Could be a couple of different people responsible for that happening and that type of recklessness obviously can't be tolerated. If that's the case then they don't need to go down bull street with the video being inconclusive of him pointing a handgun at an officer. They're trying to raise an unreasonable doubt, that is what I take the most issue with. I've never defended bad cops or cops violating the law, I'll also not make assumptions and condemn someone when I know damned good and well that I don't have the whole story. Neither does anyone else here.

Starting off with a lie pretty much guarantees that I won't be listening to any more on the issue.

 

[Leadeye]

So they are at the right address, but the wrong person is at the address?

Sounds like more info required, but that probably won't slow down the mob.

 

[drillsgt]

So they are at the right address, but the wrong person is at the address?

Sounds like more info required, but that probably won't slow down the mob.

This is the important distinction right here, if it's the wrong address then yeah those that participated in the raid should pay dearly. If it's the right house but wrong person then it's like the Breonna Taylor case, if you're going to associate and be around/live with/date criminals there's a certain amount of risk involved to be in that environment.

 

[rooster]

info, all I'm saying is that if you point a gun at the police you can expect to get shot.

all I’m saying is if your in my bedroom pointing a gun at me then you should expect the same.

I’m gonna take a guess that you have a firearm close by your bed and the same rules apply in your home.

 

[Denny347]

all I’m saying is if your in my bedroom pointing a gun at me then you should expect the same.

SWAT Teams usually do.

 

[Leadeye]

This is the important distinction right here, if it's the wrong address then yeah those that participated in the raid should pay dearly. If it's the right house but wrong person then it's like the Breonna Taylor case, if you're going to associate and be around/live with/date criminals there's a certain amount of risk involved to be in that environment.

I have no idea how they figure stuff like this, but release of the video seems premature without accurate info to go with it.

 

[rooster]

SWAT Teams usually do.

Then we all now know how that will end. If the law wants me I go to work every day at the same time. You can set your watch by me walking out the door. No reason to run up in my bedroom

 

[SumtnFancy]

If it is "so dangerous" to execute a no-knock raid, then why do it? If you are expecting bad people to do bad things, maybe find a different way to do it, because this way isn't working. The officers are going in, guns drawn, expecting resistance. So anyone inside is liable to get killed, including pets, or THE WRONG PERSON.
Can't stake people out anymore? I know they can track anyone they want. Why barge into a home at 3am and create chaos? That seems like they are expecting to execute someone. That isn't justice. I'm sure stats exist on how many people are shot/killed during a no-knock versus calmly apprehended.

 

[SumtnFancy]

If you're going to associate and be around/live with/date criminals there's a certain amount of risk involved to be in that environment.

Same thing applies to women who wear short skirts

 

[phylodog]

all I’m saying is if your in my bedroom pointing a gun at me then you should expect the same.

I’m gonna take a guess that you have a firearm close by your bed and the same rules apply in your home.

Do you sleep over at other people's homes? The kind of people who would be involved in a murder investigation? Do you yourself have any reason to believe you might possibly be the target of one of these no knock warrants?

Then I'd say you have little to fear.

 

[drillsgt]

Same thing applies to women who wear short skirts

No, not really.

 

[phylodog]

If it is "so dangerous" to execute a no-knock raid, then why do it? If you are expecting bad people to do bad things, maybe find a different way to do it, because this way isn't working. The officers are going in, guns drawn, expecting resistance. So anyone inside is liable to get killed, including pets, or THE WRONG PERSON.
Can't stake people out anymore? I know they can track anyone they want. Why barge into a home at 3am and create chaos? That seems like they are expecting to execute someone. That isn't justice. I'm sure stats exist on how many people are shot/killed during a no-knock versus calmly apprehended.

Sure. Try to take them down in public and you risk vehicle pursuits and gunfire out in the public. If an innocent person gets injured then what is said? "They knew he was likely to run/shoot, why didn't they just wait until he got home where he couldn't hurt anyone else?"

There is no winning when expectations and reality are nowhere near each other. You cannot pursue violent people with nothing to lose and expect 100% success. Unfortunately sometimes bad things happen to good people. If that was a result of legit violations of protocols or laws then by all means hold those responsible to account.

I spent 12 years on the SWAT team and was involved in hundreds of no knock warrants. Wanna know how many "worked" just fine? 99% +. Indy SWAT alone serves 300+ warrants/year and you rarely hear about it, that's because no one cares about things that went right. No knock warrants have gotten significantly more difficult to obtain and I don't disagree with that shift at all. Sometimes, unfortunately they are still needed/justified to better prevent officers or the public from being injured and sometimes it isn't pretty.