I Can not tell if I am more Angry or Hurt?

[bobzilla]

Can you show me where the state of Indiana says that? Considering that salaries are negotiated at the local level, I kinda doubt it. Oh and average starting salary is right about 38k, top is 70K. And that is for working 3/4ths of a year, and I don't believe includes benefits. Last year when the subject of teacher pay came up, I checked some of the contracts. Everyone the school paid the teachers portion of their pension fund for instance.

Also their wages were when factoring in amount of year worked, right in line with other degrees such as nursing or mechanical engineers.

Destitute? See above. Average starting salary of around 38k for 9 months of work, which works out to be about 50k for a year round position and for top pay a little over 90k.

Don’t bother. Some people find it easier to believe the lies and blaming all teachers and schools.

The answer to this problem starts at home. It also bends there. But parents aren’t parents anymore. I’ve spent 20 years married to one of those awful leeches of society who has had to work harder and harder because the parents just don’t parent anymore. But we won’t let facts get in the way of a great blame session.

 

[cg21]

Careful now, my friend. I have gotten in some pretty wicked knock down drag out's with a few INGOers, arguing just what you are saying here. Some folks take real offense in being told that parents need to parent.

Lol the only excuse for a parent to not parent is ignorance maybe negligence/lazy. if someone is arguing that fact….. then they aren’t ignorant they are morons. School and teachers CAN be great but at best they are there for academic teachings not life lessons. (Sometimes they go hand in hand admittedly) Kids need parents, both parents.

 

[BrassBandit]

Its ok to tell children they can choose their gender but heaven forbid we teach them a useful skill.

No kidding. Sickening world. I don’t see gun safety happening in this day in age at schools with how the scary gun culture has painted them. It has to start at home. It doesn’t fit the anti gun agenda to actually teach kids about gun safety even if would save one life. Why would they want kids to be familiar with/feel comfortable around guns? They want them to be scared of them to further erode gun rights and “mob guilt” gun owners.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Can you show me where the state of Indiana says that? Considering that salaries are negotiated at the local level, I kinda doubt it. Oh and average starting salary is right about 38k, top is 70K. And that is for working 3/4ths of a year, and I don't believe includes benefits. Last year when the subject of teacher pay came up, I checked some of the contracts. Everyone the school paid the teachers portion of their pension fund for instance.

Also their wages were when factoring in amount of year worked, right in line with other degrees such as nursing or mechanical engineers.

Destitute? See above. Average starting salary of around 38k for 9 months of work, which works out to be about 50k for a year round position and for top pay a little over 90k.

Teachers, like most of us, are alive 24/7. We don't go into some sort of hibernation state when not actively working. That $38K must sustain them even when they're "not working". So, the "equivalent" argument doesn't stand up.

Plus, do you have any idea what a teacher needs to do to be prepared to teach? Their down time is hardly idle, sit around and knock a few back, time.

 

[cg21]

Teachers, like most of us, are alive 24/7. We don't go into some sort of hibernation state when not actively working. That $38K must sustain them even when they're "not working". So, the "equivalent" argument doesn't stand up.

Plus, do you have any idea what a teacher needs to do to be prepared to teach? Their down time is hardly idle, sit around and knock a few back, time.

I would say that depends on the teacher how downtime is spent. Just as all cops aren’t bad all teachers aren’t good. And everyone knows the wage going into the job. Not many jobs make money when they aren’t doing their job, Everyones job comes home with them In one form or another.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

For the 2023 legislative session I will again hit up my new representative to put forward such legislation. I do not expect it to happen but feel free to join me. The more voices heard on this topic, the more it has a chance.

Good idea. I’d do it now. They’re already working on the bills they want to offer next session. January will be too late for this year.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

I would say that depends on the teacher how downtime is spent. Just as all cops aren’t bad all teachers aren’t good. And everyone knows the wage going into the job. Not many jobs make money when they aren’t doing their job, Everyones job comes home with them In one form or another.

Good point. My comment is based upon the half-dozen or so teachers that I know who are still teaching. That's a pretty small database in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Teachers, like most of us, are alive 24/7. We don't go into some sort of hibernation state when not actively working. That $38K must sustain them even when they're "not working". So, the "equivalent" argument doesn't stand up.

Plus, do you have any idea what a teacher needs to do to be prepared to teach? Their down time is hardly idle, sit around and knock a few back, time.

Yes the equivalent argument does stand up, they take a lower overall yearly salary in exchange for only working 3/4 of the year. Should someone working 30 hrs a week expect the same weekly paycheck as someone working 40? Based on having comparable degrees/experience that is.

Yes I have an idea. I have/had a couple of teachers in my family, along with others in the school system. And for their summer downtime, my niece spent about 2 months last summer touring SE Asia, this summer she's in central and south America. She wants to visit iirc 50 countries by the time she's 30 and she is well on her way. I also know teachers that pick up a summer job.

Teachers aren't the only profession that has this. I knew an underwater welder that per OSHA he could only spend x amount of hrs on the job per year, he generally timed out after about 6-7 months or so. He did other jobs 3-4 months of the year and took a couple months off. That's how I met him, he was checking underwater gas lines for NIPSCO, any exposed they would bring in local temps to toss burlap sacks of dry cement in and he would pack them around the pipe. That was his summer job, he traveled the country doing it.

 

[schmart]

Once again a local Kid’s life was cut short by stupidity, Alcohol, and a unsecured firearm. Without putting anything out there that is not in the public domain. I would like to pose a question with regards to what can be done to stop these needless deaths among our youth? I am not asking about some sort of safe storage legislation, but rather a real solution.


Help me understand why we can not teach firearms safety as early as 3rd grade? A blue gun and a competent teacher could go a long way. Why would it be so wrong to teach our youth that firearms just like any other tool can be dangerous if misused? And why can’t we teach them proper handling, and what to do if they were to come across one.


Seems there is no issue teaching multiple levels of math, English or any other subject, so why not age appropriate firearms training Through out their academic years?

Just looking for some type of viable solution.

IMO, this falls on the parents. When I purchased my first handgun, kids were too small to shoot it. However, I still took them to the range so they could see the recoil and hear the gun fire. I shot hollow points at water bottles/melons so they could see the damage the bullet would do. I let them safely handle it basically anytime that they wanted to satisfy their curiosity. But told them they would get severely beat if I ever caught them touching the gun without me being there (even though at that time I kept it unloaded, just in case). I never had an issue as I allowed the curiosity to be satisfied.

I did the same thing with my woodworking equipment and demonstrated the power of the saw. A pencil was about the same size as their fingers. Had them agree it was likely as tough as the bones in their finger and then flicked it through the saw and the end was just gone. Explained the same thing would happen to them if they played with the saw and did something wrong. I wasn't that I wanted to keep the items to themselves, but wanted to protect them from harm until they were big enough to use the equipment properly.

Seems too many parents get something "dangerous" and just tell kids to stay away, meanwhile, they go about using it with a smile on their face. Is there any reason the kids get curious and start exploring it to see why the parent likes it?

--Rick

 

[Ziggidy]

We need to be on our knees praying. We need to have our children see us on our knees praying. We need to have our children see us not only fighting the good fight at home, but standing tall in the face of evil as we walk out of our homes. That means have our children see us live the life we want them to live, not just sometimes, but all the time.

Are "we" making that sacrifice for our children?

 

[92FSTech]

Parenting has broken down in our country. Even someone who knows nothing about guns ought to be able to teach their kids about the potential danger and not to play with them. But parent's aren't involved enough to do that. The gun thing is only one symptom of the greater problem...a shocking and devastating symptom, to be sure...there are a lot of other ways that kids get failed by their parents, with terminal outcomes, that don't get the same level of attention.

There are some good schools and great teachers out there...but there are also some worthless ones, both public and private. My kids are homeschooled...I don't trust the schools to teach them basic reading and math skills, so there's no way I'm counting on them to teach them gun safety. That's part of my job as a parent...along with an overall responsibility to ensure that they all grow up to be decent, responsible human beings. It takes work, but it's worth it...definitely a lot more important than anything else I've got going on in my life.

 

[Creedmoor]

Can you show me where the state of Indiana says that? Considering that salaries are negotiated at the local level, I kinda doubt it. Oh and average starting salary is right about 38k, top is 70K. And that is for working 3/4ths of a year, and I don't believe includes benefits. Last year when the subject of teacher pay came up, I checked some of the contracts. Everyone the school paid the teachers portion of their pension fund for instance.

Also their wages were when factoring in amount of year worked, right in line with other degrees such as nursing or mechanical engineers.

Destitute? See above. Average starting salary of around 38k for 9 months of work, which works out to be about 50k for a year round position and for top pay a little over 90k.

If teachers want to earn more they should do what zillions of others have done.
Move. Where im from.

 

[TheGhostRider]

Yes the equivalent argument does stand up, they take a lower overall yearly salary in exchange for only working 3/4 of the year. Should someone working 30 hrs a week expect the same weekly paycheck as someone working 40? Based on having comparable degrees/experience that is.

Yes I have an idea. I have/had a couple of teachers in my family, along with others in the school system. And for their summer downtime, my niece spent about 2 months last summer touring SE Asia, this summer she's in central and south America. She wants to visit iirc 50 countries by the time she's 30 and she is well on her way. I also know teachers that pick up a summer job.

Teachers aren't the only profession that has this. I knew an underwater welder that per OSHA he could only spend x amount of hrs on the job per year, he generally timed out after about 6-7 months or so. He did other jobs 3-4 months of the year and took a couple months off. That's how I met him, he was checking underwater gas lines for NIPSCO, any exposed they would bring in local temps to toss burlap sacks of dry cement in and he would pack them around the pipe. That was his summer job, he traveled the country doing it.

And the welder probably got paid pretty darn good doing it!!! Actually sound friggin cool.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And probably got paid pretty darn good doing it!!! Actually sound friggin cool.

Which one got paid pretty darn good? The teacher or the welder? If the welder, oh heck yeah at least on his main job. He worked on oil rigs in the gulf in the winter and the other jobs in the summer. He was talking about retiring in Alaska in his early fifties at the latest.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Yes the equivalent argument does stand up, they take a lower overall yearly salary in exchange for only working 3/4 of the year. Should someone working 30 hrs a week expect the same weekly paycheck as someone working 40? Based on having comparable degrees/experience that is.

Yes I have an idea. I have/had a couple of teachers in my family, along with others in the school system. And for their summer downtime, my niece spent about 2 months last summer touring SE Asia, this summer she's in central and south America. She wants to visit iirc 50 countries by the time she's 30 and she is well on her way. I also know teachers that pick up a summer job.

Teachers aren't the only profession that has this. I knew an underwater welder that per OSHA he could only spend x amount of hrs on the job per year, he generally timed out after about 6-7 months or so. He did other jobs 3-4 months of the year and took a couple months off. That's how I met him, he was checking underwater gas lines for NIPSCO, any exposed they would bring in local temps to toss burlap sacks of dry cement in and he would pack them around the pipe. That was his summer job, he traveled the country doing it.

You missed the entire point ... teachers (and any other "part time" worker you care to discuss) don't make an equivalent amount of money. They make a set amount of money and they have to live on that amount. Trying to argue that a set amount of money is equivalent to another amount of money is a false equivalency.

Your examples of what people do in their down time are fine data points, but you cannot expect us to consider those examples the norm for teachers and others who don't "work full time".

Typing this, I'm getting the feeling that I'm just wasting my time. Oh well, it is my down time so, I guess I'm entitled to do so.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You missed the entire point ... teachers (and any other "part time" worker you care to discuss) don't make an equivalent amount of money. They make a set amount of money and they have to live on that amount. Trying to argue that a set amount of money is equivalent to another amount of money is a false equivalency.

Your examples of what people do in their down time are fine data points, but you cannot expect us to consider those examples the norm for teachers and others who don't "work full time".

Typing this, I'm getting the feeling that I'm just wasting my time. Oh well, it is my down time so, I guess I'm entitled to do so.

Yes they make a set amount of money, that set amount of money per day/week/month worked is about the same as an equivalent degree earns. A RN or mechanical engineer makes about the same per day/week/month worked as a teacher. They just generally work 12 months a year compared to a teacher that may work 9. So no it's not a false equivalency.

What is the "norm" for teachers? I know some that work a different job in the summer, some that stay home, some that tutor, some that... A lot it seems to me depends on home life. Single no kids disposable income, travels. Two income family, mix of taking the summer off or part/full time work. Single income family, part/full time work.

 

[bobzilla]

Let’s not forget the TRF and health care options that teachers have available that the rest of us don’t. There are perks there along with good pay. $38k starting, with sone district manager going into 6 figures before retirement? Plus a guaranteed retirement and cheaper insurance? That’s not under paid. In fact that’s almost the opposite. But they do have to deal with all the deadbeat parents because none of them do anything at home. (See what I did there? Same thing as calling all teachers bad. All parents are bad)

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Now I'm not a father (that I know of) but have been called daddy many times so I feel like that counts enough to weigh in here


I feel maybe classes in school would be great, BUT this education has to start at home. From a very very young age I knew where all the guns and ammo were. The ammo was locked up and didn't learn where the key was till my 30s.

Dad made damn sure I knew those were not like my toys and were not to be touched for any reason unless he was handing it to me. I knew that if I touched them my father would take me out of those world. But of I ever asked to hold one or see how it worked he would pull one down and show me all about it and tell me stories about shooting or what ever came to mind.



When I was a teen he pulled out a shotgun and told me all about how all guns are loaded and he showed me how to check and how to be safe. He also told me that if my pals ever pulled a gun out I was to leave and not be inviting their ********.


Gun safety education starts with an invested parent at home.

 

[Dean C.]

You missed the entire point ... teachers (and any other "part time" worker you care to discuss) don't make an equivalent amount of money. They make a set amount of money and they have to live on that amount. Trying to argue that a set amount of money is equivalent to another amount of money is a false equivalency.

Your examples of what people do in their down time are fine data points, but you cannot expect us to consider those examples the norm for teachers and others who don't "work full time".

Typing this, I'm getting the feeling that I'm just wasting my time. Oh well, it is my down time so, I guess I'm entitled to do so.

I read 38k a year is a "good" job that requires a college degree and cannot stop laughing. People do realize the effective minimum wage in this country right now is basically $15~ an hour?!?!

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Yes they make a set amount of money, that set amount of money per day/week/month worked is about the same as an equivalent degree earns. A RN or mechanical engineer makes about the same per day/week/month worked as a teacher. They just generally work 12 months a year compared to a teacher that may work 9. So no it's not a false equivalency.

What is the "norm" for teachers? I know some that work a different job in the summer, some that stay home, some that tutor, some that... A lot it seems to me depends on home life. Single no kids disposable income, travels. Two income family, mix of taking the summer off or part/full time work. Single income family, part/full time work.

Confirmed ... my time was wasted on resonding to you ... that's the second time I made that mistake ... my first and last ... have a great equivalent life.