Court Rules Bump Stocks Are Not Machine Guns

[SheepDog4Life]

For the lawyers here, since it was the government that lost... this time... is it only the DOJ that can appeal to try and get it before the SCOTUS?

Not so sure that Garland really wants to do that with the current SCOTUS line-up and risk more than just bump stocks... Chevron Deference IIRC was cited in at least one of the other appeals circuit rulings.

A legit AG would want clarity... Garland isn't that.

Or can one of the parties to the previous adverse appeals court decisions now point at this decision and ask the SCOTUS to re-consider since there are different outcomes in different circuits?

 

[Ingomike]

Or can one of the parties to the previous adverse appeals court decisions now point at this decision and ask the SCOTUS to re-consider since there are different outcomes in different circuits?

This as I understand it is a responsibility of the court to settle competing decisions from the circuits.

Not a lawyer though…

 

[DadSmith]

Set for a Supreme Showdown? The Fifth Circuit Rejects Bump Stock Ban In Contrast to Other Circuits

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit has handed down a major opinion in Cargill v. Garland, No. 20-51016, ruling 13-3 that the ATF ban on bump stocks is unlawful. The en banc de…

jonathanturley.org

 

[JAL]

For the lawyers here, since it was the government that lost... this time... is it only the DOJ that can appeal to try and get it before the SCOTUS?

Not so sure that Garland really wants to do that with the current SCOTUS line-up and risk more than just bump stocks... Chevron Deference IIRC was cited in at least one of the other appeals circuit rulings.

A legit AG would want clarity... Garland isn't that.

Or can one of the parties to the previous adverse appeals court decisions now point at this decision and ask the SCOTUS to re-consider since there are different outcomes in different circuits?

One of the parties in one of the circuit court judgements must petition SCOTUS for a Writ of Certiorari, which would undoubtedly be granted by SCOTUS given the now conflicting circuit judgements. I would expect this even if there weren't a conflict between circuit court outcomes, but SCOTUS taking it up is all but guaranteed now -- pending a valid petition for a Writ of Certiorari being made by a party with standing to do so.

 

[Alamo]

If I understand correctly, the DOJ/ATF has chosen to not appeal the fifth circuit appellate decision. So bump stocks are legal within fifth circuit court; area includes Texas, doesn’t include Indiana.

 

[pitbulld45]

I never wanted one until the government said I couldnt have one. Now Im waiting for the seventh to fight it or SCOTUS to vote it down before I can purchase said stock.

 

[gassprint1]

So if a bump stock is legal according to that appeals court, even if it does make the gun into a machine gun, then a sear and a glick switch and whatever gadget out there would be legal too..right...all those "pieces" are just parts after all and not a firearm according to the rulings.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So if a bump stock is legal according to that appeals court, even if it does make the gun into a machine gun, then a sear and a glick switch and whatever gadget out there would be legal too..right...all those "pieces" are just parts after all and not a firearm according to the rulings.

No. With a bump stock, it's still 1 trigger pull = 1 shot fired. With a sear or glock switch, 1 trigger pull = multiple rounds fired.

 

[bobzilla]

No. With a bump stock, it's still 1 trigger pull = 1 shot fired. With a sear or glock switch, 1 trigger pull = multiple rounds fired.

correct. The stock is not changing how the trigger works. A sear or giggle switch changes how the trigger functions.

 

[chipbennett]

So if a bump stock is legal according to that appeals court, even if it does make the gun into a machine gun, then a sear and a glick switch and whatever gadget out there would be legal too..right...all those "pieces" are just parts after all and not a firearm according to the rulings.

One (the sear/Glock switch) changes the "one trigger pull, one discharge" mechanical function of the firearm. The other (bumpstock) does not. That mechanical function is the federal statutory definition of a "machine gun".

 

[gassprint1]

One (the sear/Glock switch) changes the "one trigger pull, one discharge" mechanical function of the firearm. The other (bumpstock) does not. That mechanical function is the federal statutory definition of a "machine gun".

Yes i know, i was making a mere argumentive point of how simple little parts make something into something else. Wasn't out to raise the blood pressure.

 

[jamil]

If I understand correctly, the DOJ/ATF has chosen to not appeal the fifth circuit appellate decision. So bump stocks are legal within fifth circuit court; area includes Texas, doesn’t include Indiana.

Because there's something magical about a state border that makes a bump stock, which has none of the components that define a firearm, literally a machine gun.

 

[Alamo]

2A trivia: The plaintiff, Cargill, is a 2A activist who has a gun store in Austin. I think he’s currently also suing the ATF over the Biden administration’s policy of shutting down as many gun dealers as possible thru no tolerance for administrative errors. I believe he’s likely the one who reported the City of Austin to the Texas AG for improperly refusing access to a city government building to armed LTC holders. The AG sued the City and got them fined and access restored for LTC holders.

 

[actaeon277]

ATF over the Biden administration’s policy of shutting down as many gun dealers as possible thru no tolerance for administrative errors

The ATF should be held to the same degree.
So, if the ATF has made any 'admin errors', it can be shut down.
Any guesses if they've made any.

 

[chipbennett]

The ATF should be held to the same degree.
So, if the ATF has made any 'admin errors', it can be shut down.
Any guesses if they've made any.

[NICS has entered the chat, with its 90%+ false "no proceed" returns]

 

[Ingomike]

Bump stocks back on store shelves in three states

Though for how long is anyone’s guess. After the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals struck down the ATF’s administrative ban on bump stocks, the Department of Justice had until last Monday to...

bearingarms.com

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Yes i know, i was making a mere argumentive point of how simple little parts make something into something else. Wasn't out to raise the blood pressure.

The NFA includes such parts in their definition of a machine gun, ("any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun") however a firearm with a bump stock doesn't meet the definition of a machine gun ("
any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger") because it does not fire automatically "by a single function of the trigger"

 

[femurphy77]

I never wanted one until the government said I couldnt have one. Now Im waiting for the seventh to fight it or SCOTUS to vote it down before I can purchase said stock.

I bought an M&P 15/22 after seeing how much fun they were on Hickock 45's channel. Then of course all this nonsense started. Still hoping to perhaps one day mod mine as well.

 

[Alamo]

Cargill asked for specific kinds of relief, like kill Bump stock rule nationwide, and costs and attorney fees. The trial court said no, rule is legal.

The 5th said no its not and sent the case back to the trial judge to close the case in accordance with the appellate decision (a 15–3 decision!)

The trial judge apparently got his nose bent, so he simply declared Cargill to be the winner and directed the case be closed. Nothing about what kinds of relief Cargill is entitled to.

Texas Federal Court Closes Case on Bump Stocks, Leaving Open Questions of Legality

Despite a federal appeals court declaring a federal ban on bump stocks illegal, the ATF indicated it is still enforcing the ban.

thetexan.news

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Glorious. Just glorious. Knickers in a bunch there Judge? Grow up and do your job. Act your age and not your shoe size?