Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[45sRfun]

In another post you stated that there is a lot of evidence that by AD 70 the canon was complete. The complication is that there is a difference between being written and being recognized as scripture. The Church decided what books were in the Bible and what ones were left out. The Bible itself has no list of books that belong in the Bible so I would ask you your own question. Show me proof from the Bible what books belong in the Bible.

There is internal evidence within the Bible that verifies the cannon. Pastor Cascione's research in the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts shows a unifying pattern underlying the entire Bible that is not found in the extra-Biblical writings. See his book,

In Search of the Biblical Order -- Patterns in the Text Affirming Divine Authorship from Revelation to Genesis​

I will review the rest of your message later.

Besides the above proof, this interesting book makes the case for internal proof:

The Canon of Scripture: A Presuppositional Study​

"In this book, Dr. Kayser proves the canonicity of each of the 66 books of the Bible using the Bible itself. He defends and demonstrates the Protestant doctrine that “only God can identify His word,” and did so through the very prophets who gave us the Scriptures. The Bible’s self-referential statements are sufficient to completely settle the question of canonicity. There can be no higher authority by which Scripture is judged than itself, or the Scripture would cease to be the highest authority."

Further, see footnote 78 from Dr. Kayser:

78 Leon Morris summarizes the overwhelming historical evidence when he says,

The church never attempted to create or confer canonicity. The decrees of the councils dealing with the matter, never run in the form: ‘This Council decrees that henceforth such and such books are to be canonical.’ The decrees rather run in the form: ‘This Council declares that these are the books which have always been held to be canonical.’ The Synod always contents itself with saying which books are already accepted as canonical. It often speaks of the accepted books as those which have been ‘handed down.’ It never attempts to confer canonicity on a book which lacked it, nor to remove from the list a book which was agreed to have had it… Canonicity is something in the book itself, something that God has given it, not a flavored status the church confers upon it. The church made no attempt to do more than to recognize canonicity and it could do no more. (Leon Morris, “The Canon of the New Testament,” Encyclopedia of Christianity, volume 2, edited by G.G. Cohen, Marshallton, Delaware: The National Foundation for Christian Education, 1968, pp. 337-338, as quoted by Dr. Robert Fugate in his doctoral thesis: The Bible: God’s Words to You (unpublished doctoral thesis at Whitefield Theological Seminary, 2008))

 

[Magyars]

 

[DadSmith]

Prayers for my daughter, and grandchildren. My SIL died.

 

[Firehawk]

Prayers for my daughter, and grandchildren. My SIL died.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Your family is in our thoughts and prayers DadSmith.

 

[Lwright]

Prayers brother

 

[2A_Tom]

Let us be thankful of the full Salvation through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, the promise of Heaven, and the reunion of all believers.

Prayers for those that grieve fore the present separation.

 

[historian]

Prayers for my daughter, and grandchildren. My SIL died.

Prayers for them

 

[DadSmith]

Christmas Town Creation Museum
The pictures don't do it justice. It's a must see.
These are just a few pictures.
It cost $10 for parking. That's it.

 

[Magyars]

I was raised Catholic....makes me sick what this communist pope has done.

 

[DragonGunner]

 

[foszoe]

Besides the above proof, this interesting book makes the case for internal proof:

The Canon of Scripture: A Presuppositional Study​

"In this book, Dr. Kayser proves the canonicity of each of the 66 books of the Bible using the Bible itself. He defends and demonstrates the Protestant doctrine that “only God can identify His word,” and did so through the very prophets who gave us the Scriptures. The Bible’s self-referential statements are sufficient to completely settle the question of canonicity. There can be no higher authority by which Scripture is judged than itself, or the Scripture would cease to be the highest authority."

Further, see footnote 78 from Dr. Kayser:

78 Leon Morris summarizes the overwhelming historical evidence when he says,

If what makes scripture, scripture is a test of internal proofs, then it is conceivable, given that the nature of the internal proofs is unknown to me, that the canon of scripture is not closed. If another writing is discovered, it could, hypothetically, pass a test based on internal proofs.

Scripture, like heresy, is not really discussed in council and affirmed or condemned until it first becomes controversial. Saying that the Church decided scripture does not mean one is relying on a conciliar decision so much as the witness of Christian Tradition. In the early church there were different canons of scripture in different churches. In the 4th century even, referring only to the NT. Then the Protestants changed the canon by removing books.

What makes scripture scripture is that it is recognized by the body of believers as a source of doctrine and dogma. One way to determine this is asking the question, what is read in Church? In the beginning that varied, but over time as heresies were supported by this writing or that, it fell by the wayside. That did not require a concilar decision, simply a recognition that the writing was not consistent as you say, with Christian doctrine.

God throughout history has worked through man, his ultimate work through the man Jesus Christ. The doctrine that only God can identify His word is contrary to the living tradition of the church.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

 

[foszoe]

View attachment 318470

That second lightsabre doesn't have a handle!

 

[HoughMade]

 

[2A_Tom]

Aside for flipping through channels I have never watched hin for more than a few seconds.

 

[JettaKnight]

Aside for flipping through channels I have never watched hin for more than a few seconds.

Most haven't.

Our pastor stood at the pulpit and quoted his, "This is my Bible" slogan he always uses. I smiled knowing full well what was happening, but looked around at everyone taking it seriously...

 

[HoughMade]

 

[foszoe]

 

[Magyars]

 

[Cameramonkey]

Well THIS was interesting. Jesus' birthday is actually Sept 11, 3 BC? Interesting theory backed by prophecy/astronomical/astrological data.

I'm not buying in 100%, but it is rather interesting.