I just luv gubmint

[firecadet613]

They don't matter remember? The tenants are the only people bringing any cash to the table in this so the landlord, you know the person who paid for the building(s) is irrelevant.

You must think the casinos built Vegas too....

 

[Ingomike]

You must think the casinos built Vegas too....

They also think the dealer paid for the tires on their new vehicles for them…

 

[Mij]

Government: Oh you pesky white boomer. Government isn’t there for your convenience. You are there to pay for government. Except. We’ve discovered perpetually increasing debt. We don’t need you anymore. You’re really more of a bother than anything. So why don’t you sod off to some other department and become their annoyance.

Say hello to the Federal Reserve.

 

[WebSnyper]

We have seen in this very thread that folks have no idea what property taxes pay for. That when asked they have nothing but vague responses to the questions of who and how those things should be paid for. I have said multiple times that some things should not be part of property taxes, and even offered reasoning as to why our predecessors chose the property tax for them but there has been no discussion as to those issues.

I have little option but to believe that folks are just b******g and not really in search of solutions to what they are so aggrieved about.

Do you believe that one's home should be taken by the government if there is no late/unpaid outstanding debt on the property other than property tax?

And this is a different thing than "We all agree about the principle that ownership and that with a property tax one can not own property free and clear". That's a statement of fact about the current system.

Let's toss away whether taxes should be collected on property and where the $$ go, etc.

Answer the 1 question. It's a yes or no.

 

[Mij]

I don't understand how it would turn it into suburbs? If you have 2 parcels valued at $500K, but 1 pays $800 a year taxes and makes a living off the land and the other pays $5000 just to have a place to live, just seems unfair. If the end goal is for everyone to carry "their fair share".....wouldn't it seem more fair for them to each pay say $2900? I mean, I see many of our farms being turned into subdivisions as it is, since the farmer has incentive when offered $50,000+ an acre by a developer, and our local government has incentive because they can then tax them homes built on the farm 500-800% more than they did when it was farm land. It seems taxing farmland at it's true value.........would decrease turning the fields into subdivisions......since the local government would already be getting max tax they would be less likely to approve subdivision in rural areas, as they currently do.

Not sure but I think the difference is improved land vs unimproved land.

 

[Ingomike]

Do you believe that one's home should be taken by the government if there is no debt on the property other than property tax?

Let's toss away whether taxes should be collected on property and where the $$ go, etc.

Answer the 1 question. It's a yes or no.

Why do I have to answer a question I have answered so many times in this thread and even this evening. Is it that hard to follow along?

This could have been an interesting discussion of what services should or shouldn’t be part of property tax. We all agree about the principle that ownership and that with a property tax one can not own property free and clear, but the property tax has been around in this country since colonist began setting here in the early 1600’s, the framers did not find it necessary to stop it, so a few if us are not going to change that fact now.

So now what?

 

[WebSnyper]

Why do I have to answer a question I have answered so many times in this thread and even this evening. Is it that hard to follow along?

So now what?

That's different. I asked if you believe the property should be taken by the govt. Not that it would be. We all know it will be, and true ownership cannot be achieved.

I asked if you believe it should be. Let's get it down to the most simple question, and not the form the taxation should take, or how it is assessed, etc.

 

[Ingomike]

That's different. I asked if you believe the property should be taken by the govt. Not that it would be. We all know it will be, and true ownership cannot be achieved.

I asked if you believe it should be. Let's get it down to the most simple question, and not the form the taxation should take, or how it is assessed, etc.

Not sure why I have to answer this again I have said no several times. I also think property owners should pay for what benefits their property.

Who do you think should pay for what benefits property? How should they pay it?

 

[Mij]

A farmer cant just raise the price the market is paying for corn, wheat, beans or to rent his land. The rent is gonna be based on what the renter can afford and the renters need. It all has a limit though. You are not gonna pay $300 an acre rent if you can only make $200 an acre off the crop.

Sir, do you have any idea what the margin is today on a per acre basis?

The stock market, the commodities market, the precious metals market, are ALL manipulated. The .gov can/does manipulate them to compete with foreign govs. on the world market. For there advantage.

No the farmer will attempt to make a profit, he may not. Then he will lose his farm like history shows he will eventually. What do you think a loaf of bread will cost when the government owns all the land? That’s what’s being done now!

Todays per bushel cost of corn n beans are minimal compared to what they will be in about 50 years after all of the family farms are gone. My god man can’t you see what is being done to the family farms? When the last family farm is gone NO MATTER WHICH PARTY IS IN POWER, America as we know it is done.

And by the by, I’m not angry or ****** off at anything, these things need to be discussed.

 

[WebSnyper]

Not sure why I have to answer this again I have said no several times. I also think property owners should pay for what benefits their property.

Who do you think should pay for what benefits property? How should they pay it?

How do you think non payment of property taxes should be handled?

 

[Mij]

No, not at all. We all know any farm land is valued at $15K and up per acre, as farm land. I have been to many farm auctions the last year......and I have seen no land sell for under $15,000 per acre, and farmers is who buy it. So farm land does have value as farm land. We should tax it as such.

Well, not exactly correct. Farms (corporations) maybe, but farmers not necessarily.

Many large tracts of land are being purchased by multinational corporations as carbon offset credit needs.

That is after all what is truly driving the farm land prices today. Ask someone you know and trust in the ag ground industry. Don’t take my word for it, check it out yourself.

 

[Ingomike]

How do you think non payment of property taxes should be handled?

Let’s get to this question first.

Who do you think should pay for what benefits property? How should they pay it?

 

[Mij]

Man, I’m still on page 10, who started this mess???

 

[Mij]

Then they are either dumb, or have old money to waste. I've given the links and the numbers time and again. The profit off of 35 acres (that was your initial post) at $10k/acre the pay back is 5 decades to break even. after paying costs and supplies, they're going to make less than $200/ac per year in profit. for that 35 acres thats $7000 per year, or about 50 years to pay for that property.

Just on your last link the assessed value is listed on there at a little over $74k. Their tax rate is listed as 1.6%. That's $1200, already more than the "800" you listed before. So out of the $7000 in year of profit they would see (before paying income tax) they are also paying 1200 in taxes, reducing their profit to $5800/year. Even if there was a magic button to increase their profit 50%, it's still going to be over 40 years to make that back.

EDIT: two of those 3 have houses on them. That's going to skew numbers drastically.

bobz, Sir: I‘m sure you have heard of insider trading.

I watched a “sign” yep a single 4x8 piece of plywood moved for about 25 years. One field to the next. Every time indicating “The New Home of the Any-city Catholic Church “. This occurred over ~25 years.

The whole area is now one of, if not the, biggest city enlargements in the state of Indiana. With property values far exceeding any farm ground you could imagine. 1/2 million value homes. 1/2 acre lots. Who came out on top? Well the Catholic Church I’m guessing. I’m also gonna guess what denomination the city planner was a member of. Not to mention his foreknowledge of city planning. JMO


And a by the way, they/it took some of my most productive, deer, quail, rabbit, dove, pheasant, hunting with it. All the **** little pink houses can rot for all I care. I knew all the farm families, the roads there bare there names. They haven’t taken that -yet-. A heads up, and I know you don’t need it, but, look at the bigger picture. Again, Sir:

 

[bobzilla]

bobz, Sir: I‘m sure you have heard of insider trading.

I watched a “sign” yep a single 4x8 piece of plywood moved for about 25 years. One field to the next. Every time indicating “The New Home of the Any-city Catholic Church “. This occurred over ~25 years.

The whole area is now one of, if not the, biggest city enlargements in the state of Indiana. With property values far exceeding any farm ground you could imagine. 1/2 million value homes. 1/2 acre lots. Who came out on top? Well the Catholic Church I’m guessing. I’m also gonna guess what denomination the city planner was a member of. Not to mention his foreknowledge of city planning. JMO


And a by the way, they/it took some of my most productive, deer, quail, rabbit, dove, pheasant, hunting with it. All the **** little pink houses can rot for all I care. I knew all the farm families, the roads there bare there names. They haven’t taken that -yet-. A heads up, and I know you don’t need it, but, look at the bigger picture. Again, Sir:

and that has nothing to do with what he's saying. He's saying farmers are buying farmland at ridiculous prices and farming it. We all know that's not true, not at the prices he's using.

 

[phylodog]

You must think the casinos built Vegas too....

Actually, the credit goes to whomever paid to have them built. Some here appear to believe that the gamblers built the casinos and the gamblers are the only people putting anything in to the system when the system wouldn't exist were it not for the significant investments in time and money to build it.

Same as with an apartment building. The tenants don't get to show up after the building is built and paid for and claim some significant sense of contribution for its existence. I keep hearing how the renters are the only people bringing cash into the system which is simply false.

 

[firecadet613]

Actually, the credit goes to whomever paid to have them built. Some here appear to believe that the gamblers built the casinos and the gamblers are the only people putting anything in to the system when the system wouldn't exist were it not for the significant investments in time and money to build it.

Same as with an apartment building. The tenants don't get to show up after the building is built and paid for and claim some significant sense of contribution for its existence. I keep hearing how the renters are the only people bringing cash into the system which is simply false.

Never said they are the only ones. They are the ones funding it.

Casinos aren't built out if the goodness of their hearts. Sure, some tax credits and other things, but if no one went to the MGM again, would it still operate in 6 months?

If an apartment complex went 6-12 months without a single tenant, would it still operate.

Yes, the business "paid" the property tax, but the consumer is who really pays for it...

So, if you raise the property tax, businesses raise their costs to cover it and ensure their expenses are covered. Yes, market factors do apply, but if the cost of doing business goes up, so does the product costs.

That should be common sense, not like you'd need to take an econ class like jamil did to figure that out, or manage a multi million dollar P&L to understand that business is a for profit endeavor...

 

[Cavman]

Never said they are the only ones. They are the ones funding it.

Casinos aren't built out if the goodness of their hearts. Sure, some tax credits and other things, but if no one went to the MGM again, would it still operate in 6 months?

If an apartment complex went 6-12 months without a single tenant, would it still operate.

Yes, the business "paid" the property tax, but the consumer is who really pays for it...

So, if you raise the property tax, businesses raise their costs to cover it and ensure their expenses are covered. Yes, market factors do apply, but if the cost of doing business goes up, so does the product costs.

That should be common sense, not like you'd need to take an econ class like jamil did to figure that out, or manage a multi million dollar P&L to understand that business is a for profit endeavor...

Also didn't see the tenants paying the property tax when they where protected from paying rent during pandemic. But those rental owners sure as hell still had to pay the tax and mortgages or else get it taken by force

 

[firecadet613]

Also didn't see the tenants paying the property tax when they where protected from paying rent during pandemic. But those rental owners sure as hell still had to pay the tax and mortgages or else get it taken by force

Again, read my entire post and apply some common sense. Had that bull been allowed to continue, would landlords still exist in their current form?

Use your thinking skills folks...

 

[phylodog]

I love how the person who puts up a million dollars to build an apartment building gets zero credit for pretty much anything, apparently as his very existence hinges on the generosity of tenants to support him. He'll only lose the building if taxes aren't paid, no biggie. It must suck to sit around hoping his massive investment is financially maintained by other people paying his taxes for him.