A different Federal Ammo issue

[indyjohn]

Follow up: A different Federal Ammo issue

Follow up on this topic. +1 Federal Cartridge Customer service.

Short version: I contacted them via email, offering example of brass with blown primers and remainder of the box (3 unfired rounds) for their QC. They accepted my offer and gave me an address with shipping instructions. $8.00 UPS Ground to Anoka, MN.

I followed up with them a week ago and they replied that they could not locate the box I had shipped & if they found it, they would let me know. And for my trouble they would replace the ammo.

Today on my doorstep I found a box from them with 2 boxes of GMM223! They may not be well organized in Customer Service but they certainly are generous...

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The guy in the other thread didn't specify caliber, so I'm starting my own. Here's the problem I had today at Atterbury with Federal Gold Medal 69gr .223 ammo:

The ammo was production Federal, not reloaded, shooting through my recently cleaned AR. 20 rounds shot, 3 rounds with blown out primers!!

Now, my experience with blown primers is an indication of too much pressure / too much powder ~ too hot of a load. The rifle functioned normally and grouped as expected (though I wasn't the only one shooting it and I wasn't trying too hard for groups).

Opinions?

 

[sloughfoot]

Wow, this is worrisome. I don't know why factory production ammo would be doing this. I would contact Federal and make a loud complaint.

 

[indyjohn]

Yes, but, the kicker is, after a brief Google on decoding Federal lot numbers, the "J" datecode is 2004! But I haven't researched enough yet to confirm that is accurate. The ammo has sat in the bottom of my gun safe in my house (so, reasonable climate control) for 7 years -- meaning age and storage environment 'shouldn't' be a factor..

I know I'm setting myself up for replies like "you have a gun problem" but I'm looking for similar experiences...

 

[sloughfoot]

I have some of that lot of 69 HPBT ammo in my basement. It is before Federal took over the LC plant. I will shoot a box out of an AR with a Wylde chamber on Sunday.

 

[sporter]

Could ambient heat have been an issue?

Could be a gas system issue from using the heavier bullet in a semi auto rifle.

As indicated previous, could be an issue of too much powder or even a case issue or chamber issue increasing pressures. Also over gas starting disengagement of the bolt group early.

 

[indyjohn]

I have some of that lot of 69 HPBT ammo in my basement. It is before Federal took over the LC plant. I will shoot a box out of an AR with a Wylde chamber on Sunday.

For your reference: specifically 31J131. As you may already know, the lot number describes caliber, mfg date, and machine produced on.

I'm afraid that you'll come back with "I had no problem". But that being said, I just can't imagine I have a mechanical problem. Reasons:

1. I am self diagnosted OCD, so the gun gets cleaned after 176 - 264 rounds (2-3 matches)
2. I don't over lube the gun -- less is more
3. I've simply not put enough rounds through the gun for it (< 2000-2500)
4. It's a quaility rifle.

 

[indyjohn]

Could ambient heat have been an issue?

Could be a gas system issue from using the heavier bullet in a semi auto rifle.

As indicated previous, could be an issue of too much powder or even a case issue or chamber issue increasing pressures. Also over gas starting disengagement of the bolt group early.

I would like to think it was an ambient temp issue. We were shooting at about 2pm today. Of course at Atterbury we were under cover, so no direct sunlight on the ammo.

I cannot speak expertly on the gas system. I didn't advise you that it's an Armalite National Match with a Krieger Stainless Barrel @ 1:7.75 twist - ideal for the 69 - 80 gr. Sorry I didn't mention that when I asked for help.

 

[sporter]

Rifle sounds good to go. Since it's full length I would not think there would be an issue.

I guess you could try a similar loading from a different manufacturer or lot during the same conditions.

Federal might be able to shed some light on the issue or if you are not too happy with the ammo sell it to someone that will run it in a bolt gun.

 

[indyjohn]

Rifle sounds good to go. Since it's full length I would not think there would be an issue.

I guess you could try a similar loading from a different manufacturer or lot during the same conditions.

Federal might be able to shed some light on the issue or if you are not too happy with the ammo sell it to someone that will run it in a bolt gun.

Trying another mfg 69gr production load seems my best next step.. Thank you sir.

Slough? Further opinion?

 

[sloughfoot]

No way it is the rifle. Or ambient temp. Federal has only loaded for about 2900 fps. Usually a little less for the 69. I don't think it is ammo.

7 year old ammo though.......cold welding maybe? That is about the only thing I can think of. Even though it is usually an issue for the reloader that handles his bullets with bare fingers.

That is going to be my answer. Cold welding.

Or maybe the rifle range gremlins. I have heard they are pretty active lately. The gremlins are pretty worried about the debt limit....

 

[indyjohn]

Or maybe the rifle range gremlins. I have heard they are pretty active lately. The gremlins are pretty worried about the debt limit....

You're just a bad person....

 

[indyjohn]

Update

Went back to Atterbury Saturday & tried different ammo through the AR (S&B of all things).

No blown primers, no cycling problems, the gun ran fine. Went ahead and ran some more FP Gold Medal through it... no problems.

I'll be contacting Federal this week for instructions on how to send back a half used box of defective ammo. Maybe they'll send me a replacement box??

Or a hat....

 

[shooter1054]

In my 300wsm reloads, I've noticed that when I prime the Federal cases, they prime awfully easy. They also sized very easy. When I shot them, the primers blew out. The Winchester cases sized and primed tougher. And I had no blow outs with Winchester cases. This leads me to believe that Federal brass is softer. But I could be wrong.

 

[xring62]

I dont know any NRA HighPower old timer that reloads Fed. brass, Ive heard the old guru's say 'If you use Federal brass you will lose your gun' ,due ,to loose primer pockets. I tried to use it, primers go in way to easy. If I do load fed. brass its to plink and leave the brass lay in the weeds.

 

[indyjohn]

I dont know any NRA HighPower old timer that reloads Fed. brass, Ive heard the old guru's say 'If you use Federal brass you will lose your gun' ,due ,to loose primer pockets. I tried to use it, primers go in way to easy. If I do load fed. brass its to plink and leave the brass lay in the weeds.

Ya, it's odd. I countered your similar comment in another thread too; I'm not trying to bust your chops. I can't tell you what I do that is different from the rest of the reloading world, but I don't have the problem.

For the sake of defending the FC brass (which I know is a lost cause, but it will make me feel better), here is a page from my reloading journal:

Batch# 00102501M1A, 31 rounds

Brass - FC x3 fired
Bullet - Sierra MK 175g HPBT
Primer - Winchester WLR Std Rifle
Powder - IMR 4064

Load - 43.5gr
Headspace - +.002 to .004
OAL - 2.820"
Trim to Length - 2.005"

Sized, trimmed & tumbled cases for 30 minutes in walnut media with Dillon 290 polish.

Notes: This round performed great in a moderate crosswind (~5-8mph from 9:00). Primers are cratered, which indicates load is at the high limit of safe. The M1-A did not appear to have any problems with firing it. Load cannot be developed any further.

I'm feeling much better now....

And BTW, now you know 1 NRA Highpower old timer that reloads FC brass - ME!

 

[indyjohn]

In my 300wsm reloads, I've noticed that when I prime the Federal cases, they prime awfully easy. They also sized very easy. When I shot them, the primers blew out. The Winchester cases sized and primed tougher. And I had no blow outs with Winchester cases. This leads me to believe that Federal brass is softer. But I could be wrong.

I went back to my journal to verify. I don't remember it but I used Winchester brass a lot more than I thought I did. For the sake of second guessing myself, my data and experience with FC brass is from nearly 10 years ago. It is entirely possible they have changed their brass in that time....

 

[Hazwhopper]

Have you taken the rifle apart recently? The head spacing could be off, if so. That would explain the blown primers.
My first thought was barrel twist. Then you posted the twist of barrel. That is well within the tolerances for ammo listed.
My next thought is about primer crimp? Does the federal have a military primer crimp?
That is why they use the primer crimp in military apps.
The next and final thought is to take one of these apart. (or a few) You can purchase a bullet hammer for 20.00 or so at Wally world. If you have the measuring tools, you could weight the powder, and check with manuals for same loads. Then you could place the case minus the projectile into the weapon and fire them. See if the primer sounds like all the others, nothing different.
Last, that is why people cycle different ammo in there weapons for this reason. Once you rule out the weapon and ammo. You have to believe that your weapon doesn't function correctly or safely with this round or lot.
Try another round, or go back with something that you know to be good and see if it cycles correctly with no malfunctions.
Good Luck.