any one have suggestions on a new balising

[Stan]

I have been looking at the Bradley kimura 4 let me know what you think.

 

[grunt soldier]

it's a very nice balisong. they make some great ones for pretty good prices.

 

[Bradsknives]

Benchmade 62 (new model this year), top of the line without going custom.

 

[David Rose]

I've had a Kimura 2 in my possession for less than 24 hours, but so far I like it.

 

[PointFiveO]

Benchmade 62 (new model this year), top of the line without going custom.

Is that really true, Brad? The BM62 has seen some ill reviews and they've downgraded their level of craftsmanship with it from what I can tell. I've read a few reviews that mention excessive blade play. It's made of D2, which doesn't seem right to me for a knife that is probably going to get dropped from time to time. They got rid of the spring loaded latch for that model, which I just can't see a single advantage in. They made the handles out of stainless rather than titanium, and they aren't even a single milled piece as with the 42. I haven't handled one myself, but the amount of bad press as well as the specifications makes me question your statement.

The Bradleys are very excellent.

 

[Bradsknives]

Is that really true, Brad? The BM62 has seen some ill reviews and they've downgraded their level of craftsmanship with it from what I can tell. I've read a few reviews that mention excessive blade play. It's made of D2, which doesn't seem right to me for a knife that is probably going to get dropped from time to time. They got rid of the spring loaded latch for that model, which I just can't see a single advantage in. They made the handles out of stainless rather than titanium, and they aren't even a single milled piece as with the 42. I haven't handled one myself, but the amount of bad press as well as the specifications makes me question your statement.

The Bradleys are very excellent.

I can tell you this, the 62 is the most requested Bali from my customers. I have not heard any negative feedback from the ones that have purchased them, matter of fact I know of one particular customer that has come back and purchased two more. I see nothing wrong with D2 verses the sandvik steel that Bradley (made by Kershaw for Bradley) uses. Benchmade has been using D2 in there balisongs for several years with no reported problems associated with the steel. The Model 51 Morpho and 32 Mini Morpho uses D2 and these two models have been out for over two years with no major problems related to the D2 steel. I question your concern over the use of D2. You are wrong about the the handles not being milled. The 62 handles are machined, not casted. I spoke with Benchmade about the 62 before it was even released. There were several reasons why Benchmade went the direction they did with this design and truthfully I can't remember them all, but I do remember Benchmade telling me that they had millions of requests to bring back the 42 and customers were requesting a heavier balisong. The most common complaint with the 52 and 32 models was they were too light (G-10 handles with titanium liners). Basically what Benchmade has done with the 62 is to bring back the style/looks of the 42 model in a heavier design. The 62 weighs 6.3oz and the Bradley Kimura 5 that I have sitting on my desk weighs in at 5.7oz. No question that the Bradleys are a great value for the price point, but they are considered an "enter level" in the bali world. The serious flippers that I know won't even look at them.

 

[PointFiveO]

I can tell you this, the 62 is the most requested Bali from my customers. I have not heard any negative feedback from the ones that have purchased them, matter of fact I know of one particular customer that has come back and purchased two more. I see nothing wrong with D2 verses the sandvik steel that Bradley (made by Kershaw for Bradley) uses. Benchmade has been using D2 in there balisongs for several years with no reported problems associated with the steel. The Model 51 Morpho and 32 Mini Morpho uses D2 and these two models have been out for over two years with no major problems related to the D2 steel. I question your concern over the use of D2. You are wrong about the the handles not being milled. The 62 handles are machined, not casted. I spoke with Benchmade about the 62 before it was even released. There were several reasons why Benchmade went the direction they did with this design and truthfully I can't remember them all, but I do remember Benchmade telling me that they had millions of requests to bring back the 42 and customers were requesting a heavier balisong. The most common complaint with the 52 and 32 models was they were too light (G-10 handles with titanium liners). Basically what Benchmade has done with the 62 is to bring back the style/looks of the 42 model in a heavier design. The 62 weighs 6.3oz and the Bradley Kimura 5 that I have sitting on my desk weighs in at 5.7oz. No question that the Bradleys are a great value for the price point, but they are considered an "enter level" in the bali world. The serious flippers that I know won't even look at them.

The D2 was only a minor concern really, with such a small blade obviously it's not going to be a huge issue, I just think there are better steels for balisongs. I guess I'm just not a fan of D2 in general: the only knife I've ever broken the blade on was in D2. I tend to bring this up whenever I talk about benchmade balis. I think they had chosen a better steel in the 154 in the BM42. I'd even like to see one done in 3v for the prices you pay for these things.

I realize they had justifications for many of their changes, but I think they are conveniently changes that cut costs for the company significantly. I think this is wrong when it is not coupled with a drastic price drop. They are selling cheaper materials and using their name to keep the prices high. To me every change that was made does not seem to be for the purpose of a higher quality knife than the 42. I understand making a heavier flipper, they are nice for gravity related tricks. But because they did this to a design that was supposed to recall a previous famous design I just have a hard time believing that they did it only because it was a requested feature.

When I say a single piece of milled material, I mean that the B42 was one solid piece of ti for each handle, was it not? (Really I'm asking, I have never owned one). I was under the impression that the B62 was a sandwich design using scales and spacers. I understand that they, and most balisong producers, do this with the best knives available, but I think it was a mark of quality in the 42. I'm interested to know because the reviews I've read aren't very clear. I am interested in the knife myself because I am used to heavier balisongs (Having learned mostly on cheap steel flippers).

Now these are minor complaints. A heavy version of the 42 is indeed a good idea, I can't dispute that even if I think their motives were not pure. The above, I will admit, is mostly whining. But there is one major problem with the knife that I just can't forgive. I'm sure they had another justification for it, but I just don't see why they would remove the spring loaded lock. That is one of the features that puts Benchmade at the top of the production balisong market. I am disenchanted with the BM62 primarily for this reason.

I have seen the same thing with some hardcore flippers about the Kimuras, and I have also seen people scoff that those folks. Like you said they are a great value, but I firmly believe they are underrated. Obviously the Mayhem is better (and we know why), but the Kimura is a quality no-frills knife. Now I wasn't comparing them to Benchmade obviously because the Kimura lacks the features that I would want out of the pricey 62, I just don't believe that it's the best production balisong. I also disagree that the Kimura is "entry level," though you aren't the first person I've heard say it and, as a retailer of quality products, I understand your stance. But I feel that an entry level flipper to the general population is a $15 brandless piece of junk that you can find at fairs and bargain stores and have to constantly lok-tite and tighten to keep from flying apart. I know a lot more people with those than I do people with quality balis, and that's what I learned with.

Honestly I want you to talk me into loving the 62, because I want to love it. I'm as huge of a fan of the 42 as anyone out there, and I firmly believe that their company is the top of Balisong full production knives. But I just can't see how the 62 represents the top of that line (historically, not currently as I'm not familiar with their current line).

 

[Bradsknives]

The D2 was only a minor concern really, with such a small blade obviously it's not going to be a huge issue, I just think there are better steels for balisongs. I guess I'm just not a fan of D2 in general: the only knife I've ever broken the blade on was in D2. I tend to bring this up whenever I talk about benchmade balis. I think they had chosen a better steel in the 154 in the BM42. I'd even like to see one done in 3v for the prices you pay for these things.

I realize they had justifications for many of their changes, but I think they are conveniently changes that cut costs for the company significantly. I think this is wrong when it is not coupled with a drastic price drop. They are selling cheaper materials and using their name to keep the prices high. To me every change that was made does not seem to be for the purpose of a higher quality knife than the 42. I understand making a heavier flipper, they are nice for gravity related tricks. But because they did this to a design that was supposed to recall a previous famous design I just have a hard time believing that they did it only because it was a requested feature.

When I say a single piece of milled material, I mean that the B42 was one solid piece of ti for each handle, was it not? (Really I'm asking, I have never owned one). I was under the impression that the B62 was a sandwich design using scales and spacers. I understand that they, and most balisong producers, do this with the best knives available, but I think it was a mark of quality in the 42. I'm interested to know because the reviews I've read aren't very clear. I am interested in the knife myself because I am used to heavier balisongs (Having learned mostly on cheap steel flippers).

Now these are minor complaints. A heavy version of the 42 is indeed a good idea, I can't dispute that even if I think their motives were not pure. The above, I will admit, is mostly whining. But there is one major problem with the knife that I just can't forgive. I'm sure they had another justification for it, but I just don't see why they would remove the spring loaded lock. That is one of the features that puts Benchmade at the top of the production balisong market. I am disenchanted with the BM62 primarily for this reason.

I have seen the same thing with some hardcore flippers about the Kimuras, and I have also seen people scoff that those folks. Like you said they are a great value, but I firmly believe they are underrated. Obviously the Mayhem is better (and we know why), but the Kimura is a quality no-frills knife. Now I wasn't comparing them to Benchmade obviously because the Kimura lacks the features that I would want out of the pricey 62, I just don't believe that it's the best production balisong. I also disagree that the Kimura is "entry level," though you aren't the first person I've heard say it and, as a retailer of quality products, I understand your stance. But I feel that an entry level flipper to the general population is a $15 brandless piece of junk that you can find at fairs and bargain stores and have to constantly lok-tite and tighten to keep from flying apart. I know a lot more people with those than I do people with quality balis, and that's what I learned with.

Honestly I want you to talk me into loving the 62, because I want to love it. I'm as huge of a fan of the 42 as anyone out there, and I firmly believe that their company is the top of Balisong full production knives. But I just can't see how the 62 represents the top of that line (historically, not currently as I'm not familiar with their current line).

I can only tell you what Benchmade has told me. When I talked to Benchmade about the 62, I was also concerned about the price that they were going to charge. The following is some additional info straight from Benchmade to me in an email when I was discussing my concerns about the 62. (Note: I just got off the phone with Benchmade to make sure I had permission to use the following.)


{{{Why the 62 is superior to the 42.

1.The handles are machined from billet as opposed to castings. The titanium castings had voids throughout the handles (internal, but sometimes even exposed on the surface. ALL of the handles were bent, warped and twisted to some extent; and ALL had visible cosmetic flaws caused by the casting process such as rough channel edges, etc. Precision machining the handles out of billet will also give us the capability to make handles out of any materials we choose such as: aluminum; titanium; brass; G10; Carbon Fiber; Damascus; etc. The casting process limited us to only using Titanium on the 42 (the SS limited’s were cast off of the same tool but there were so many problems we were not able to do further runs). Ultimately casting is a lower quality production method.

2.The 62 uses two stop pins as opposed to a tang pin on the 42. The tang pin was soft stainless whereas the stop pins are heat treated 400 series. The stop pins will wear better over time. The old style tang pins would wear and flatten with use causing the 42 to get loose in the open position and requiring the pin to be “swelled” using a hammer and punch. The stop pins also eliminate the need for a “kicker” on the blade tang for the closed stop. This allows us to bring the cutting edge back further on the 62 extending the edge by about another ¼”.

3.The spring latch served to keep the latch “erect” while flipping; preventing it from hitting the opposing handle. However, the springs required extra care as they would get “squeaky” over time and require oil. They were a cause of failure (spring breakage) in the field. And they required the handles of the 42 to be nearly ½” longer than the more compact 62. Also, during flipping, centrifugal force will keep the lightweight latch of the 62 extending out from the handle, effectively negating the need for the spring.

4.The heavier, smoother stainless steel handles of the 62 are an intentional nod to the “old-school” days of the 45 model. Believe it or not, stainless and brass used to be the standard and when the 42 came out, people were up in arms over the light weight titanium; complaining it didn’t flip as well as the heavier materials.

5. We upgraded the steel from 154cm to D2.}}}


As far as the Bradley models being “entry level”. In the bali world they are considered entry level, but to the general population that will only buy one or two balisongs in their life time and never have a real passion for balisongs or become hard core flippers, it's possible that Bradley's are considered better than "entry level". It's no different than anything else that people purchase. Some people think that Taurus handguns are great guns and other gun people that are passionate about their firearms will tell you that they are junk and nothing else is acceptable unless it's a Sig, Colt, Kimber, Wilson Combat....or any other high end firearm.


It's not for me to talk you into loving the 62 model. You and everyone else (including me) are only going to purchase what we like and it may be that the 62 will never inspire you enough to own one. It's no different than the thousands of knives that are out there, there will be ones that we like and
purchase and there will be ones that we don't like for one reason or another and won't purchase.