Does anyone know of a course taught locally that focuses on close quarter firearm manipulations here in IN? I'm very interested in SouthNarcs course but looking over his schedule I will not be able to make any of his upcoming courses that are somewhat local. (Glen view IL appears to be the closest to me upcoming). Wasn't sure if a local training company offered something similar? Any help would be appreciated.
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Anything similar to Shivworks ECQC?
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This is a part of the self-defense world I've been exploring a bit myself recently. I'll list what I've found. I've taken some of these, others I've just heard of. There really isn't anything out there like ECQC in terms of the realism. But I'll list a few options that focus on the close gunfighting problem.
1. Mindset Lab offers a course called Firearm Combatives and Retention. It does not cover a very wide scope of material. It teaches some retention techniques, striking with the pistol, and you get some time practicing with some liveness against a guy in a fist suit. This is a one-day course.
2. SZorn offers a class called FULL FORCE Handgun Retention in Warsaw later this month. This is one of the FAST Defense classes. FAST is supposed to be a method of stress inoculation training and also uses a guy in a padded suit to provide a live training and testing. I've not taken this one, but I picture it being similar to the Mindset Lab course in overall tempo and approach. I've taken a different FAST Defense class from a different instructor.
3. Greg Ellifritz at Active Response Training teaches a two-day class called Extreme Close Range Gunfighting. From what I understand, this is basically the first two days of the TDI course I'm going to mention next. Greg is also an instructor at TDI and teaches the TDI class.
4. TDI in Ohio offers an Extreme Close Quarters class. This is the closest thing to ECQC that I'm aware of, but it is much lighter intensity. It teaches a different take on many of the same concepts seen in ECQC, but without the technical grappling focus, if I remember right. I need to get my notes out and write an AAR for this one.
5. Suarez International offers a class called Zero to Five Feet Gunfighting. INGO member Randy Harris is a Suarez instructor based in Tennessee and has taught this class in Indiana before.
6. Self Preservation Training has posted some weapons-integrated combatives type courses. I don't specifically remember one on the close-quarters gun problem, but it seems within their wheelhouse. You might check with them as well.
7. Paladin Combatives offers (or used to offer) a course called Managing Unknown Contacts. This class doesn't really address the gun problem, but takes a slice of important information from ECQC and presents it as stand-alone material. It also includes some basics of standing grappling and control that come right out of ECQC as well. It would be a good way to get a view of some important concepts from ECQC. Cedartop and jdhaines are the instructors. They have hosted the class in various places in Indiana, including Avon and Terre Haute, and one time in some guy's garage.
None of the above classes come close to the realism and testing you'll find in ECQC. ECQC also tends to have a technical grappling focus in terms of the techniques they teach. I doubt most of these classes will incorporate that.
1. Mindset Lab offers a course called Firearm Combatives and Retention. It does not cover a very wide scope of material. It teaches some retention techniques, striking with the pistol, and you get some time practicing with some liveness against a guy in a fist suit. This is a one-day course.
2. SZorn offers a class called FULL FORCE Handgun Retention in Warsaw later this month. This is one of the FAST Defense classes. FAST is supposed to be a method of stress inoculation training and also uses a guy in a padded suit to provide a live training and testing. I've not taken this one, but I picture it being similar to the Mindset Lab course in overall tempo and approach. I've taken a different FAST Defense class from a different instructor.
3. Greg Ellifritz at Active Response Training teaches a two-day class called Extreme Close Range Gunfighting. From what I understand, this is basically the first two days of the TDI course I'm going to mention next. Greg is also an instructor at TDI and teaches the TDI class.
4. TDI in Ohio offers an Extreme Close Quarters class. This is the closest thing to ECQC that I'm aware of, but it is much lighter intensity. It teaches a different take on many of the same concepts seen in ECQC, but without the technical grappling focus, if I remember right. I need to get my notes out and write an AAR for this one.
5. Suarez International offers a class called Zero to Five Feet Gunfighting. INGO member Randy Harris is a Suarez instructor based in Tennessee and has taught this class in Indiana before.
6. Self Preservation Training has posted some weapons-integrated combatives type courses. I don't specifically remember one on the close-quarters gun problem, but it seems within their wheelhouse. You might check with them as well.
7. Paladin Combatives offers (or used to offer) a course called Managing Unknown Contacts. This class doesn't really address the gun problem, but takes a slice of important information from ECQC and presents it as stand-alone material. It also includes some basics of standing grappling and control that come right out of ECQC as well. It would be a good way to get a view of some important concepts from ECQC. Cedartop and jdhaines are the instructors. They have hosted the class in various places in Indiana, including Avon and Terre Haute, and one time in some guy's garage.
None of the above classes come close to the realism and testing you'll find in ECQC. ECQC also tends to have a technical grappling focus in terms of the techniques they teach. I doubt most of these classes will incorporate that.
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This is great info Jackson, I'll start looking into each of these. We used to work scenarios in Krav but it was always empty hand combatives/grappling against someone with a gun or knife. As I carry a gun almost 100% I'm out I'd like to know how to effectively put it to use at these close distances as well as retain, plus it's been about 7yrs since I've practiced Krav so I'm beyond rusty.
I trained with Jeff Frederickson at Krav Maga Worldwide who is now at 116th and Allisonville(Great instructor) At the time I worked in the evening so I was able to spar and train with blue guns/knives during the day with a few IMPD officers coming off of shift but now my schedule doesn't allow me to attend as often as I once did. Lately I've been boxing to stay in shape but miss some of the situational practice.
Anything by Cecil Birch is absolute gold.
Coursework | Immediate Action Combatives
Paul Sharp is closer, but offers fewer classes. Right now all I can find is his blog, also excellent.
https://sharpdefense.blog/
Coursework | Immediate Action Combatives
Paul Sharp is closer, but offers fewer classes. Right now all I can find is his blog, also excellent.
https://sharpdefense.blog/
Excellent options.
I took a class from Todd Rossa (Sig Academy instructor) last year in KY, but I do know that he travels the country teaching. Distances from "bad breath" to "body odor". I think that if I were ever to take another class like this, I would seek out a private class. There always seems to be students who manage to get a spot advanced classes who don't possess the basic skills to keep up.
The worst part for me is not really being able to practice the skills I learned on a normal range with other shooters around. I would not have any shooting buddies left if I used them to help me practice weapon retention.
The worst part for me is not really being able to practice the skills I learned on a normal range with other shooters around. I would not have any shooting buddies left if I used them to help me practice weapon retention.
Mike Vanover at Team Lockout Jujutsu in Bluffton IN has put together a pretty amazing retention and in fight weapons access class. 6 hours long. Wells county. It has gotten some solid reviews.
https://www.teamjujutsu.com/
https://www.teamjujutsu.com/
I think I met Mike and some of his crew at ECQC. Seemed like a good guy. I'm going to look for an opportunity to check this out.
Thanks to all for the suggestions so far, you've kept me busy researching these options. Looks like the next weapons access seminar with lockout will be in Oct. I did sign up for the Full force handgun retention seminar that Szorn is putting on in Warsaw but will continue finding new opportunities to train
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