Buying handgun from IN-stater

[CTC B4Z]

Not sure where to put this...

Guy I know, won a gun in a raffle. He said before it got to him, he had to "register" it at a local FFL before they gave it to him. I assumed they just charged him for the backround check, but I am not familar with dealings outside of a store...

Should we take the gun and paperwork back to place of "registration" to get this sorted out?

thanks

 

[Scutter01]

There is no such thing as gun registration in Indiana. However, it's probable that the raffle folks wanted to have an FFL perform the transfer so that they could make sure that the recipient had a NICS check performed and was not prohibited from receiving a handgun.

 

[CTC B4Z]

Exactly as I thought. Thank you I tried searching and lookd through your sticky in the classifieds but still was not real clear as this situation was different

 

[chocktaw2]

Selling basically free guns should be a crime. Just saying

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

I am confused. Are you now buying the gun from him?

If you are both IN residents, the sale from him to you does not require going through an FFL.

 

[CTC B4Z]

Yes I Am buying from him....

He says he doesnt want it in his name... But I think hes confused that they just did a backround check...

I than had a friend say he had to pay $25 to get his gun out of his name and transfer it via FFL to another IN stater... WTF?!

 

[Scutter01]

Yes I Am buying from him....

He says he doesnt want it in his name... But I think hes confused that they just did a backround check...

I than had a friend say he had to pay $25 to get his gun out of his name and transfer it via FFL to another IN stater... WTF?!

Neither of your friends know what they're talking about. Indiana has no gun registration.

 

[JetGirl]

Raffles, drawings, banquet guns, etc., all require a 4473 form (just as if you were purchasing it). You're right in thinking your friend has this confused with a "registration".
The only part I don't understand of your post is this: "He said before it got to him, he had to "register" it at a local FFL" ...There's no way a NICS check could have been done "before it got to him". You have to fill out that form yourself and it gets called in while you're there...or you can't leave with the gun.

 

[msd]

Being a handgun, was it from out of state? What you said about "being sent there" ?? Usually the gun raffles, the guns are still at a FFL dealers to begin with. (at least all the ones I've been in). You win, you go pick up.
Cant you take a gun you purchased from an individual, to the sheriffs dept and have it transfered to your name? I heard this somewhere before, but didn't know if it was true or not.

 

[JetGirl]

Usually the gun raffles, the guns are still at a FFL dealers to begin with. (at least all the ones I've been in). You win, you go pick up.

Sometimes the FFL holder takes his 4473 forms to the place where the raffle is being held (e.g. Ducks Unlimited Banquet, White Tail Banquet, etc.) and does the call in for the background check right there.

Cant you take a gun you purchased from an individual, to the sheriffs dept and have it transfered to your name? I heard this somewhere before, but didn't know if it was true or not.

NO. The "Sheriff's Dept" has NOTHING to do with anything regarding "transfers", unless he holds an FFL...

 

[kalboy]

Neither of your friends know what they're talking about. Indiana has no gun registration.

Correct, it would seem the confusion here is just poor choice of terminology. The gun isn't in your friend's name. He just thinks it is because of the 4473 he had to fill out" before the gun got to him"
ie, before he could take possession of it. It's common for any raffle or gun auction to require this. Your friend can rest easy. Perhaps you can convince him the gun isn't registered. The NICS check is all about him, not the gun.

 

[686 Shooter]

If the guy has the gun in his posession, hand him the money, assure him that you are legally able to purchase a gun, take the gun, and you just made a legal gun transaction. Assuming you are both Indiana residents

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Once a purchase is made and a 4473 filled out, the person who filled out the form will be associated with that gun for at least 20 years. But that does not mean the gun is REGISTERED. When a 4473 is filled out only you and the FFL know what gun was purchased and the serial number.

NICS is required to destroy the info collected on the 4473 within 24 hours. But your dealer has to keep the form and a book with the disposition of the firearm for over two decades.

Let's say the gun (A glock 26 for example) turns up on a crime scene in 5 years. ATF starts a trace by calling Glock to see which wholesaler the gun was sold to. Then they call the wholesaler (Davidsons for example) and they say they sold the gun to Indy Gun Safety. So ATF calls me. I look through the book and find that I sold the gun to John Doe, and I'm required to fax them the 4473. ATF uses the info on the form to contact John Doe. John Doe says "Man I sold that to some guy at the Indy 1500 over a year ago. Mr. Doe could provide ATF with any info on the sale such as a receipt if a copy was retained to continue their trace, or the trace ends there if Mr. Doe didn't keep any info. THERE IS NO GUN REGISTRATION IN INDIANA! But the gun can be traced if need be as illustrated above. There is no way to get your name out of the trace. But the government has no idea who gets what gun. Even if NICS kept the info submitted on the 4473 it only contains info on what TYPE of gun was applied for (Handgun, long gun, other) and they do not know the brand or serial number or if the transfer ever even took place!

The only time the ATF gets specific gun info is when you buy more than one handgun in any 5 consecutive business days. When that happens the FFL is required to provide all of the personal info on the 4473's as well as the make, model and serial number of the guns. That info must be faxed to ATF by the end of the business day on which the multiple sale or disposition was completed. This is done to track illegal dealing. Many collectors wheel and deal a little to grow their collections. That's okay as long as they are not trying to make money selling guns.

An interesting point here: When I say BUSINESS DAYS it has nothing to do with days that state or federal office buildings are open! Is has to do with days the FFL is open for business. So for example we are open 7 days a week. So Saturday and Sunday could be business days. But if a shop was only open two days a week it could take up to 3 weeks to get up to 5 business days! So at some shops 5 business days is simply 5 days. At others it can be weeks! Some FFL's don't know this because they don't read the newsletters that ATF puts out, where this very topic is well defined. The REG book does not define it that way. The reg book has not been updated in 5 to 6 years! The ATF emails dealers "newsletters" to change the rules and help define (read CONFUSE) any issues that come up.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GETTING A GUN PUT INTO YOUR NAME, OR TAKEN OUT OF YOUR NAME!

Sometimes the FFL holder takes his 4473 forms to the place where the raffle is being held (e.g. Ducks Unlimited Banquet, White Tail Banquet, etc.) and does the call in for the background check right there.

THIS IS ILLEGAL! The NICS check must be done at the time AND PLACE of disposition, which MUST be the licensed premises of the FFL!. A dealer cannot sell or transfer the gun remotely, PERIOD! The ONLY exception to this is in-state GUN SHOWS. I'm not saying it isn't done, but it would NOT be legal. You want a gun from me? It gets done at the licensed premises or gun show, or not at all.

 

[JetGirl]

NICS is required to destroy the info collected on the 4473 within 24 hours. But your dealer has to keep the form and a book with the disposition of the firearm for over two decadesunless he relinquishes his FFL and turns his books over..

Let's say the gun (A glock 26 for example) turns up on a crime scene in 5 years. ATF starts a trace by calling Glock to see which wholesaler the gun was sold to. Then they call the wholesaler (Davidsons for example) and they say they sold the gun to Indy Gun Safety. So ATF calls me. I look through the book and find that I sold the gun to John Doe, and I'm required to fax them the 4473. ATF uses the info on the form to contact John Doe. John Doe says "Man I sold that to some guy at the Indy 1500 over a year ago. Mr. Doe could provide ATF with any info on the sale such as a receipt if a copy was retained to continue their trace, or the trace ends there if Mr. Doe didn't keep any info. THERE IS NO GUN REGISTRATION IN INDIANA! But the gun can be traced if need be as illustrated above.

Exactly that ^

The only time the ATF gets specific gun info is when you buy more than one handgun in any 5 consecutive business days from the same place.

A couple additions ^ (in red).

 

[JetGirl]

The NICS check must be done at the time AND PLACE of disposition, which MUST be the licensed premises of the FFL!.

I've never heard this before, even when spending a week with agents during an audit. I will find out, though.
(Please don't take offense to me not taking you at your word 100% off the bat...I just prefer to verify things for myself)

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I've never heard this before, even when spending a week with agents during an audit. I will find out, though.
(Please don't take offense to me not taking you at your word 100% off the bat...I just prefer to verify things for myself)

Don't take my word for it! A quick call to Nancy Garlie in BATFE Industry Operations at 317-287-3500 will help.

"unless he relinquishes his FFL and turns his books over.."

Well, then ATF has them anyway so it's a moot point. The records are still there for 20+ years.

 

[CTC B4Z]

thanks guys..

 

[Hayseed_40]

There is no such thing as gun registration in Indiana. However, it's probable that the raffle folks wanted to have an FFL perform the transfer so that they could make sure that the recipient had a NICS check performed and was not prohibited from receiving a handgun.

If it were true it would be in the FAQ...