Can it be done?

[Mgderf]

Sounds iffy to me, but if it's doable, I'm interested.

I had a friend tell me the other day that he had a buddy down in Florida that was going to do a conversion for him, that he had done it before, successfully, but the guy was killed in a bike wreck before he sent off the gun.

My friend said, that his friend said, that he could convert a Saiga .410 into a semi-auto .45-70govt and all he needed to change was the barrel.

I'm not smith. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

So, what say Ingo guru's? Would this be a possibility, or just a pipe dream?

 

[55fairlane]

I would think it's doable,but not very practical from the cost side of it,also is there a safety concern going from 410 to 45-70? that's my big question..... doable? probably,worht it? not in my opinion

Aaron

 

[SSGSAD]

Reloading manuals, list two different load data, for old rifles, and new rifles .....

Marlin 1895, and Ruger No. 1 .....

So, JMHO, make sure you know what pressure the barrel and chamber is rated for .....

 

[SSGSAD]

I would think it's doable,but not very practical from the cost side of it,also is there a safety concern going from 410 to 45-70? that's my big question..... doable? probably,worht it? not in my opinion

Aaron

Not to bash, but have you seen the price of .410 lately ?????

 

[Mgderf]

If it's nothing more than a barrel change, I can't see how it would be prohibitively expensive to build. If I'm not mistaken, the pressures for a modern .410 bore is close to that of the black powder loads for .45-70.
I could be wrong there, but that's another reason I'm asking for opinions.
I reload for .45-70 now, so...

 

[shawnba67]

Please forgive a fuzzy memory but I believe that the guy from teppo jitsu did one in 444 marlin

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Please forgive a fuzzy memory but I believe that the guy from teppo jitsu did one in 444 marlin

It was Tony Rumore at Tromix. The project wasn't really successful, but things have changed a bit since then and I think there is still a little bit left to explore. From what I understand, the gun worked, but they had mag/feeding problems that they could not solve. They couldn't get more than 2 or 3 cartridges to stack into the mag and feed correctly. The 2.5" mags were just a little too short internally (front to back) for the cartridges to even fit while the 3" mags had too much space and the cartridges wouldn't stack correctly onto the follower. I don't know if any aftermarket mags were available at the time, but an SGM 3" mag might be worth toying with. I know that the 3" SGM mags are noticeably smaller on the inside (front to back), so the follower geometry is likely a little bit different too. I own a Saiga 410 and discovered the difference between the 3" Russian factory mags the SGM mags when some of my .410 ammo that worked fine in the Russian mag was too long to even fit into my new SGM mag (and I was NOT happy about that!). Also, FWIW, Tony was using an early Saiga that was only designed to feed and fire 3" shells. Copying the "barrel tongue" from the newer versions that will feed and fire 2.5" shells (with the correct 2.5" mag) might help in feeding the .444 Marlin round from a 3" .410 mag. Take all of this together and someone might finally be able to get this conversion to work the way it should.

To address the OP question about .45-70: I don't think that cartridge would work, the rim diameter will likely make the mag/feeding issues worse, but I will play with my mags and some .45-70 rounds tonight just to be sure. Theoretically, .444 Marlin is a better fit from that perspective. Also, .444 Marlin pressures are comparable to 7.62x39 and there are no "+P" loads to worry about like with .45-70.

 

[55fairlane]

Not to bash, but have you seen the price of .410 lately ?????

ammo or gun? i saw some .410 defense loads and about died at the price

no worries about bashhing,all good

 

[17 squirrel]

Reloading manuals, list two different load data, for old rifles, and new rifles .....

Marlin 1895, and Ruger No. 1 .....

So, JMHO, make sure you know what pressure the barrel and chamber is rated for .....

410 runs about 12,500 psi with most loads.

Well, there is really more than 3 different levels for shooting 45-70
Springfield Trapdoor. = 18000 psi or under
Winchester , Marlin, Henry ??? and other same style lever actions and single shot H&R's 28000 psi or less.
Winchester / Browning and other 1885's along with modern falling, Modern Browning Lever Actions and rolling blocks, low and high walls, modern Rugers plus some others 38000 psi

It would be a interesting converion, its probably do able, I don't know if I could justify the cost.
I would also be concerned about metal strength with the donor Shotgun.
All this is off the top of my head, so please don't hold me to and data I posted.
I'm nowhere near my shop.

 

[Mgderf]

The original conversation regarded a Saiga .410 donor rifle, but I'm thinking maybe another direction.
Someone expressed concerns about feeding issues with the Saiga.
To that end, now I'm wondering if maybe a pump-action wouldn't make more sense.
If that would work, maybe a Mossberg .410 could be the host.

A pump action .45-70 would be sweet.

 

[17 squirrel]

If you could find a vintage large frame Colt Lighting ? It might be a good candidate. But most likely costly..

 

[17 squirrel]

I had a flash this morning, How about a 450 Marlin ?
Marlin discontinued it a few years ago but I'm sure they are around,
And Browning offers in the BLR lineup. I believe its a 45-70 with a belted rimless rim.

 

[Hookeye]

Semi auto .45 cal thumper.................450 Bushmaster AR.
No fuss.