Carry a backup gun EDC? Why/why not?

[BlueEagle]

Repped, coserman. Great post and citation. I agree with you completely; including the "grip safeties" thing. I've always disliked them; because if the only way I can get a shot off is with one finger through the trigger guard while lying on the ground, then I damn well want that to work.

 

[loony1]

you have to have a gun to defend your gun, don't you????

 

[IndyGunner]

Im sure all the XD guys might need a backup, my EDC = perfection

 

[Disposable Heart]

I would be willing to bet 10 bucks that the majority of those stories are police officers, putting themselves into harms way intentionally. With a gun hanging off their hip "take me, take me".

OF COURSE a BUG makes sense in that occupation. I remain unconvinced that it is a level of preparedness warrented by the CCW holder.

Nothing WRONG with carrying a bug, but so many people dont even carry a primary weapon it seems relatively academic.

At some point, you need to trust your maintenace and equipment to the point where you do not worry about your firing pin breaking the ONE TIME in your life you need to shoot another human being.

Because if you have fired 30K rounds, and the ONE TIME you need it your firing pin breaks....

maybe fate just wants you dead

In response to my disagreement regarding BUGs, I will meerly repost what Dom said. If in the unlikely case that I need a BUG, maybe the gun was the thing that became the issue in the fight. If they are close enough to get my gun, they are close enough to catch a knife in the side of their neck. If they are that close, they catch my blackjack in their jaw or face.

I am not in a situation where I open carry often, like police. The chances of my gun being removed from my person only will occur unless I am truely screwed or when that gun is in my hand (and likely foolishly so).

Folks want to shoot it out, CONSTANTLY, for some reason. Lots of instruction I have taken shown my tactics before to be very gun-centric, depending solely on the firearm. I don't carry a BUG (though the J frame would be considered ONLY a bug by some of the more tacit or tacticool folks), I carry a BUW (back up weapon), quality knife, sap, blackjack, etc... Brush up on your grappling and other bare hand tactics. I would imagine most that have a gun would have it slapped out of their hands with how I see folks practice. A BUG would suffer the same fate (or they would kill you after getting your EDC while you are fumbling for a BUG, their anger at you trying to kill them inflamed at the sight of your EDC to begin with).

Having been jumped a few times, I didn't use the gun I had on me the first one. All I had was a knife the second time. I trust what a knife can do. In response to "they attack in pairs" thing, yes, that happens. But if you are being swarmed, your primary taken, do you honestly think you will be able to deploy a BUG? Grabbing a knife or jacking someone in the face will work wonders... trying to get at a gun while "turtled" is hard (on your back), especially if you got goons kickin' your sides in. A quick hard kick to kneecaps will work better than a gun.

DON'T be gun centric. Don't even be weapons centric. Be survival centric.

 

[cosermann]

... DON'T be gun centric. Don't even be weapons centric. Be survival centric.

+1.

And, let's not forget those BUWs.

 

[BlueEagle]

Regardless of that, my gun is still the most effective fight-stopper I have, and I will use it when I get the chance. I'm not ruling out the possiblity of hand-to-hand, but as soon as I can put some space between myself and the assailant, I will be employing my most effective weapon. It just makes sense to me. I respect what you're saying, and I think that there is a lot of truth in it, but at the same time, I'm going to use the most powerful and effective tool that I can get my hands around when I'm defending my life. And generally speaking, a gun beats a knife or bare hands. Not saying that its true in ALL cases, but it is in many of them.

 

[Cannon762]

How about one step further? Carry backup mags for your backup gun?

I've been feeling a greater draw to carry a backup gun mostly for the situation of needing to arm a friend/wife in a bad situation, and if that situation were to arise I feel like I'd want them to have as much firepower as possible.

 

[BlueEagle]

Reasons to carry a backup weapon that matches your EDC weapon. Magazine interchangeability. So, for me, that question is moot.

I think most people would say that they don't, however; the backup tends to be a last-ditch defense thing, and I think that a lot of people don't carry spare mags for them.

Its a question of preference, really. Thats why I like carrying my G17/26 combo; all my spare mags are 17 rounders, and will fit both of my guns.

 

[DanO]

As an LEO, I sometimes carry a BUG along with a duty weapon. I also may have a sub gun or shotgun depending on the situation. None of these "extra weapons are because I think my main pistol will fail. I ALWAYS have an impact weapon, light, knife and cuffs with me at work. Off duty, the impact weapon, light and knife.

It is your life and you have to insure yourself for what calamities you believe are likely.
FACTS:
-Most LTCH holders will never have a situation where they need to fire their gun at a BG. Do the math: # of LTCH minus # of civillian shootings.
-I have been an FI for my agency and at FLETC. THe only quality guns I have seen "fail" were Trainee guns we shot the crap out of and recoil springs or trigger springs went out. A quality weapon, tested and well maintained, will not fail you. My personal GLOCKS, SIGS, COLTS, RUGERS and S&Ws have never had a hiccup with factory ammo. My Glock, sig and colt autoloaders have never even had an FTF, FTE or any jam over tens of thousands of rounds.
-Carry what you want, but make an educated decision.

 

[sparkyfender]

Nope. Never have. One handgun for me.

More power to those who carry multiples..........

 

[Quad]

My Guardian .380 on my hip with extra mag. My N.A.A. Pug in my weak side pocket (as a last resort). Sometimes a pocket knife if clothing will allow it.

 

[southpaw.nc]

-Most LTCH holders will never have a situation where they need to fire their gun at a BG. Do the math: # of LTCH minus # of civillian shootings.

While true the number of CCW shooting vs CCW holders is very low, one must consider the number of times a CCW holder might 'use' a CCW to defend their life without having to fire a shot. (Note: I am not advocating drawing your gun for anything less than a life-threatening situation)

 

[randyb]

I see a lot of people posting about semi auto pocket guns as their BUG. Does anybody carry a j-frame in their pocket? I was thinking about getting the lcr for my pocket gun.

Over at TPI and other forums the J frame is highly recommended for "FUT" (F--ked up tangle) as the revovler is less likely to jam up againsta person at contact range than a semi-auto. I personally geel that if its that close, a good knife is gonna do more for me than a handgun. That said one of my carry guns is a Ruger in the front pocket.

 

[revance]

I always have my Sig P239, extra mag, knife, flashlight, and a sturdy pen. All are easily accessible if needed.

However I had never considered carrying a BUG to arm someone else. My wife has taken training classes but still doesn't carry. She has talked about it, but never taken the leap. Part of that is because she is a teacher... how often would she actually be able to carry? She would need to go home first, get the gun, then go back out. Typically when that happens she is going out with me and she knows I have a gun.

I might drop my LCP in my weak side pocket from now on to give her if we ever found ourselves in a situation.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

Wow, I could not disagree more.

Pulling the trigger on those is like pulling your pickup by the trailer hitch.

Worst, Trigger, on ANY gun I have ever held. I wouldnt touch one with a 10 foot, no a 30 foot pole.

I have only handled about 8 of them, but they ALL felt absolutly 100% horrific, did they redesign them recently or something?

Magnum Research was sold to Kahr in June 2010. I suspect that they have made some product and mfg. process enhancements. The trigger pull on my friend's MDE is Kahr-like in its smoothness. One of the best mousegun triggers I have ever tried and I have tried dozens.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

A couple other random comments....

The 2 guns, 1 mag type ?: I totally get this argument and there are advantages. However, most of "baby brother" guns (like a baby Glock, XDc or SR9c) cost just as much as their big brother and none of those three are all that concealable anyway. I used to have a Glock 26 and now I have a 19 and it is just as easy to conceal. The only way I could carry a G26 as a backup would be to wear baggy cargo pants or heavy/bulky top or jacket. That does not work in the summer and I cannot stand cargo pants anyway. Really, if I was willing to make that many clothing compromises to carry a pair of Glocks, I would get two Glocks of the same size. Subtle Office Space reference intended.

Moving on, I carry a 2nd mag for my primary gun not because I think I will run out of ammo. Rather, most gun fights result in each party firing 5-6 round and the most common gun-stopping malfunction is a magazine failure. Thus, I carry a second mag because the first one might fail. Of course, someone will argue that a person should carry a second mag for a BUG too. However, that might actually be going to far.

Anyway, an EDC, a 2nd mag, a BUG, a light and a good knife is a good combo. If the primary gun runs out of ammo, you have the choice to reload or draw the bug. If the primary gun fails, you have the same choice, though the order of priority might be reversed. If all else fails there is the knife. And if it gets really bad, you wing your broken/empty gun at the bad guy's head and take off running the other direction.

Guns Don't Fail: Yes they do. Ammo also fails and if you are in a gun fight, your gun might actually get hit and stop working. Further, the number of rounds fired that most people would describe as "shooting the crap out of a gun," would be what some people would describe as "practice." I know someone with a $2400 Les Bear Custom 1911. The gun is about 2.5 years old, has been lovingly cleaned and maintained and has generally been pampered its whole life. The result? 5 mechanical breakdowns in about 15,000 rounds - 3 of which stopped the gun in its tracks. Guns fail.