Cursed day of testing/zeroing guns

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  • GunsNstuff

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 92.3%
    12   1   0
    Feb 27, 2011
    360
    28
    Indianapolis, IN
    March 3rd was beautiful 73 degree weather so I thought I'd zero my brand new Sig 1-6 lpvo scope that I put on my AR15, zero the Holosun red dot that came off my AR15 and went onto my AR9 pistol, and for the first time fire my 1873 Colt saa replica. I tried zeroing the scope at 50 yards but I could not hit a paper plate. So I moved up to 30 yards. I still could not hit a paper plate. So I moved up to 10 yards, I still could not hit a paper plate. So I moved to 5 yards. Now I could barely hit a paper plate. I have never mounted a scope that was so far off from the factory.
    I made some adjustments and got the hits closer to my point of aim, then moved back. At 20 yards I was hitting maybe 3 inches above and 4 inches right of the point of aim. I adjusted the vertical and got impact to the point of aim vertically. Next I adjusted the horizontal a few clicks, but no movement of the point of impact. So I turned it several more clicks. Again, no movement in the impact. I did this several times with no movement in the impact. Then a few more clicks and now my tight group that was still hitting 4 inches to the right of aim was so far to the left of my point of aim that I was way off the paper plate. It's like the adjustment was sticking and not moving until I had turned the knob so much that it finally came unstuck and shifted WAY to the left of aim. After 80 rounds of wasted 223, this scope is still not even close. I assume now that this $300 scope is a piece of junk that slipped through quality control. People seem to like the US Army Sig lpvo scope, so the make & model is probably good, but mine seems broken. I've had better luck with a BB gun scope on an AR15. Time to contact PSA and see what they can do about this bad purchase.

    My AR9 is a gun I built 8 years ago and it had a billet Glock 9mm lower, but I replaced the lower with an 80% standard AR15 lower because I bought several of the Mean Arms 9mm magazine conversion guts for the Magpul mags. The 9mm bolt locks back when the mag is empty like it should. Then just for fun, I put my 223 AR upper on this 80% lower and it will not lock the bolt back on the last round. I also get feeding jams when I try to chamber a rounds. It fired fine, but manually chambering a round, it jammed over and over. Is the magwell bad? Was the milling job from the factory bad? WTF? This makes no sense. I get to looking and the Magpul Gen2 magazine follower does not come up as high as the aluminum magazines I have, so it's not pushing the bolt catch up high enough. It does with the original lower, but not with my 80%. As everyone knows, the 80% already has the magwell machining done, so that is nothing I did wrong. Is the bolt catch I have in the 80% out of spec? Maybe! So I ordered a new one.

    So I'm pissed off at this point, but that's ok because I have a few other things to do, like sight in the red dot on my AR9 pistol, which has the new 80% receiver and PSA's 3.5 pound drop in trigger. This I expect would have went well except that every time I pulled the trigger, all I got was the click sound of the hammer falling. Must be the first light primer strike I've ever had with this gun. After thousands of rounds, I have never had this gun jam or misfire once I got the buffer spacer & buffer weight right. I tried over and over, then looked at the live rounds that didn't fire. The primers looked perfect. The last time I shot this gun it worked fine. This time, after driving all the way to where I shoot, the firing pin was broken. The tip was still stuck in the bolt face. What in the holy hell is going on here?

    Fine, I'll shoot my Alec Baldwin gun, but in a safer manner. That went ok, even though the front sight looks bent to the left. Not sure how to fix that. I expect the blade is just brazed to the barrel so I don't know how much bending pressure it can take. Oh well, the gun shoots. After firing 20 shots out of it, the ejector rod stuck. I could not push the ejector rod. Now wtf? I took the whole ejector rod housing off and somehow something had gotten into the hole in the frame where the rod comes through and trying to force the rod out peeled a burr on the side of the rod, making it too large to fit through the hole. Ok God, was it the Alec Baldwin joke? Am I just an A-hole? Wtf is going on here?

    My cousin's wife brought out her Mini 14 and a 357 snubby revolver. Next problem was her revolver, after shooting a few 38 specials, it jammed up. The ejector rod felt gritty and you could not push it all the way out. Then it would not go all the way back in. Then the cylinder would not even spin. Then the cylinder would not close. I had to take the cylinder swivel screw almost all the way out before it would loosen up enough to swing again. That gun needs a gunsmith.

    I usually shoot scrap steel I get from work that's left over from the water jet with pistols, but 223 just punches right through that. So I bought my first piece of AR500 armor so I could shoot steel with the 223 rifles. I thought, since it says it's rated for 300 Win Mag, that the puny 223 Remington wouldn't do anything to this 3/8" thick piece of steel, but I was wrong again. The bullets dug into it. Even dented it to where I can see the dents on the backside. At 50 yards away even. (With the mini14 because my AR15 wouldn't hit a damn thing) I'm not sure what the hell happened yesterday, but a great day turned into a day of cursed gun stuff. I hope everyone else was able to get out and shoot and had a better time than I did.
     
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    GunsNstuff

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 92.3%
    12   1   0
    Feb 27, 2011
    360
    28
    Indianapolis, IN
    That's rough, but you were committed!

    I picked up a laser cartridge from Amazon for about $20 to aid in sighting in new scopes. Saves a bit on ammo.
    I just bought one this morning even though I have never needed one to sight in a scope before. Usually, the scope is pretty close to begin with. I always look down the bore of the rifle when I can and check to see that the crosshairs are in the ballpark of what I can see through the barrel with my eyes. I admit that I do always forget if "up" on the adjustment knob means the crosshairs will move up or the bullet impact will move up, when I turn it in the "up" direction. But after a few clicks & another shot, I am reminded because of the direction of the bullet impact. It either gets closer or farther away, then I know which way to turn it. But this was absurd. I couldn't hit a paper plate at 10 yards away?
    But when I turn the windage knob again and again and see zero shift in the bullet impact, something is wrong. After turning the windage knob more than a full turn with no shift in impact, and I mean no shift as the 4 shots I fired were touching each other on the paper plate, I turn it a few more clicks and the impact shifts about a foot? How does that make any sense? It's like the knob was not adjusting the crosshairs at all until enough tension was built up in the mechanism that it finally broke loose and moved. I think these are 1/4 moa clicks for this scope.

    I had a $60 scope on an AR15 years ago that adjusted properly and even held zero. The scope mounts were $15. The Sig Tango MSR with a nice mount is $300. I'm shooting 3 inch steel plates with my $100 .22 cal pellet rifle that came with a scope at 50 yards. So that's probably like a $20 scope. It adjusts fine. Is Sig outsourcing the manufacture of their products now and not worrying about quality control? Kind of like what Snap-on tools did with the pocketknives they sell in AutoZone?
     

    INP8riot

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 17, 2023
    247
    63
    West Central
    I admit that I do always forget if "up" on the adjustment knob means the crosshairs will move up or the bullet impact will move up, when I turn it in the "up" direction. But after a few clicks & another shot, I am reminded because of the direction of the bullet impact. It either gets closer or farther away, then I know which way to turn it.
    Right turn always pulls the crosshair closer to the dial. Left pushes it away. Just like a screw. Always bring the crosshairs TO the hole you made. After the shot, if you have the ability to hold the rifle without moving it, put the scope dead center and adjust the crosshairs to the hole. If you are freehanding it, scope adjustment value and distance to target needs to be known = math! Or just give it some cranks and see where it ends up.

    If you hit high and left. Right turns on elevation to pull the crosshairs up and left turn on windage to push the crosshairs left. It really makes sense with a bore sight when you play with it.
     
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    1nderbeard

    Master
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Apr 3, 2017
    2,554
    113
    Hendricks County
    zeroing is the worst. the closest real range I can zero at is 40 min away. So if something like that goes wrong, I'm pretty much screwed. Out the 2 hours, out the $25 bucks in gas.
     

    GunsNstuff

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 92.3%
    12   1   0
    Feb 27, 2011
    360
    28
    Indianapolis, IN
    I kind of enjoy zeroing a scope or red dot. It has always gone well for me until this time. I keep wanting to trust the quality of Sig Sauer more than my abilities to zero a scope, but I'm pretty sure I am good enough at this to know that something is wrong. When 5 clicks doesn't move the zero. Then 10 clicks doesn't move it. Then 30 clicks doesn't move it. then 50 clicks doesn't move it. Then 5 more clicks moves it a solid foot? I'd say something is defective. Now, what do I do? PSA will take returns up to 30 days after purchase. I am well within that, BUT if the product is defective, they want you to go through Sig Sauer's warrantee. Maybe there is a restocking fee with PSA, I dont' know. But going through Sig is going to probably have me out the money and scope for a month or three. That is if they dont' try to get out of the warrantee. So I have a decision to make on which way to go. Any advice?

    On the AR9, all I seen for sale were titanium firing pins. I thought titanium must be better. Why else make them out of titanium. Then after buying it, I read that titanium is not the best choice. I don't know anything about titanium firing pins. Steel firing pins, I have had 2 fail in my lifetime. One from dry firing a Llama 1911 and this one in my AR9, probably from dry firing it.
     
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    rbhargan

    Sharpshooter
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Aug 30, 2012
    616
    93
    Carmel/Liberty
    I kind of enjoy zeroing a scope or red dot. It has always gone well for me until this time. I keep wanting to trust the quality of Sig Sauer more than my abilities to zero a scope, but I'm pretty sure I am good enough at this to know that something is wrong. When 5 clicks doesn't move the zero. Then 10 clicks doesn't move it. Then 30 clicks doesn't move it. then 50 clicks doesn't move it. Then 5 more clicks moves it a solid foot? I'd say something is defective. Now, what do I do? PSA will take returns up to 30 days after purchase. I am well within that, BUT if the product is defective, they want you to go through Sig Sauer's warrantee. Maybe there is a restocking fee with PSA, I dont' know. But going through Sig is going to probably have me out the money and scope for a month or three. That is if they dont' try to get out of the warrantee. So I have a decision to make on which way to go. Any advice?

    On the AR9, all I seen for sale were titanium firing pins. I thought titanium must be better. Why else make them out of titanium. Then after buying it, I read that titanium is not the best choice. I don't know anything about titanium firing pins. Steel firing pins, I have had 2 fail in my lifetime. One from dry firing a Llama 1911 and this one in my AR9, probably from dry firing it.
    You might want to check with Sig first, but keep the 30 day return window from PSA in mind. Sounds like you had a really suck day. Scope definitely sounds screwed.
     

    roscott

    Master
    Rating - 97.5%
    39   1   0
    Mar 1, 2009
    1,652
    83
    You have a junk scope. Life is too short for junk scopes.

    Take a look at Rokslide and the scope evals done there. Lots of companies putting out junk scopes, even expensive ones. I sold several scopes and purchased a Nightforce, and was amazed at what I had been missing. No more: clicks that don’t adjust, clicks that adjust 0.22-0.27”, wandering zero, loss of zero, etc. There’s no going back.

    Silver lining, at least it failed now and not when you were shooting something more important than paper!
     

    LokhXIV

    Plinker
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Oct 8, 2023
    22
    3
    Fort Wayne
    Damn, talk about a bad day. I've had a few but nowhere near that level lol.

    Closest I've had is when I was trying to zero a new scope on my 6.5cm. Usually I'll look down the bore to see if it looks good, then start at 50 for a few shots and move to 100 to fine tune a bit. Took a shot, adjusted a bit, took another, adjust a bit more, 3rd shot looked fairly close.

    Once I moved back to 100 the magic happened lol. They were some cheap 140gr federal soft points and at 100 yards they were grouping at about 8". I thought my scope came loose. Went through and rechecked everything, still tight. Tried a few more, same thing. Broke the scope free and re-torqued the screws. Still no dice. At that point I had finished the box and switched over to some Hornady. The scope was off a couple inches, but those rounds grouped at half an inch. Thankfully it ended up just being some ammo that my rifle hated, but damn was I pissed and frustrated at the time.

    Range time is supposed to be relaxing, and it usually is. That day, I came pretty damned close to chucking that scope into the nearby creek lol.
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,197
    113
    North Central
    I agree...sounds like your scope is junk. I'd ship it back.

    It sounds like you have some issues with that lower receiver that you swapped between your 9mm and .223 Upper. Being as it's an 80%, it's hard to say what might be wrong, but if it works fine with your 9mm I'd probably just leave it paired with that one and get something else for your .223. Andersons are cheap, and usually work (that's a glowing endorsement if I've ever heard one, lol).

    I won't shoot steel with rifle calibers inside of 100 yards. That close range stuff is actually why I built the 9mm AR, so I can shoot steel inside of 100 without tearing it up. That said, I'm surprised it was denting 3/8" AR 500 at 50 yards as badly as you describe. What kind of ammo were you using, and are you sure your plate is actually 3/8" AR500?
     

    Gunaddict

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Feb 19, 2024
    105
    43
    Greenfield, IN
    I think anyone that likes to shoot has had one of those days. Sighting in can definitely be frustrating especially if you are paying by the hour for range time. I finally invested in a laser bore alignment set. It saves a ton of time and ammo to get you close at distance. I purchased a Mantis for my AR for practice and sight alignment. It saves a lot of ammo and makes the real ammo more productive. As for the issues, I know I have had a list of stuff to address after a range day. I don’t like it when it happens, but do enjoy fixing things. I wish you all good luck in the future!
     
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