Definition of "school" in the IC?

[Protest]

jediagh is correct, if you are the parent of homeschoolers, in your own home, then you are legal to carry a gun whether or not you have your LTCH since the homeschool/private school also double as your dwelling place.

However, I would caution you going to someone else's homeschool co-op at their house without first getting permission to bring your firearm. Since they are the administrator of their own homeschool/private school, things could get messy.

I'm now wondering something though. Ciyou's book gives an example that a father going to a school banquet at a hotel brought his gun and broke the law because it was a school function in a specific part of the hotel, even though it wasn't at a school. So, with that in mind, technically, a bunch of homschoolers together at a standalone church would turn that place into a school assembly and I wonder if each homeschool/private school administrator (basically parents), would need to give consent.

Argh!!! This is all so frustrating. Bad laws can so quickly and easily turn good guys into criminals.

 

[jedi]

jediagh is correct, if you are the parent of homeschoolers, in your own home, then you are legal to carry a gun whether or not you have your LTCH since the homeschool/private school also double as your dwelling place.

However, I would caution you going to someone else's homeschool co-op at their house without first getting permission to bring your firearm. Since they are the administrator of their own homeschool/private school, things could get messy.

Hey where is my cookie for being correct. =)

and please don't give me INGOs favorite kind.

I'm now wondering something though. Ciyou's book gives an example that a father going to a school banquet at a hotel brought his gun and broke the law because it was a school function in a specific part of the hotel, even though it wasn't at a school. So, with that in mind, technically, a bunch of homschoolers together at a standalone church would turn that place into a school assembly and I wonder if each homeschool/private school administrator (basically parents), would need to give consent.

Argh!!! This is all so frustrating. Bad laws can so quickly and easily turn good guys into criminals.

The short answer to your question is YES: ALL parents at the co-op who attend the church function would need to give consent IN WRITING so you can carry at the "school function". Why? We are walking into a gray area because

1) The church is an OK zone when the co-op is NOT there for anyone (you, me, even the OP (by himself)
2) The church becomes a NO-NO zone for OP when the church is used in conjunction with his co-op because now we are not talking about just his "school" but multiple "schools" going to the church for an even AND the OP knows this.

Why the distinction at the last AND?

Well if I go to that church on the same day that the co-op is there to attend say a bible class (on the 1st floor while the co-op is in the basement) I can carry WITHOUT the consent of the co-op. Why? Cause it's reasonable that I won't know that the co-op is there and thus making it a school and furthermore I'm not at the school function or know of it.

This falls in line with the Indy Zoo and you going as part of a school event or you going as a private citizen and schools being present. Its the gray area of the law and there is NO CASE STUDY yet on it.

AGAIN THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE AND I AM NOT AN ATTY.

 

[rmabrey]

during a recent vacation, i also wondered if an Amish school and its 1000 ft. radius would be off limits for a gun or if that does not fit the Indiana defined school.

Ok you two.

Prove that it is legal to carry a firearm within 1000 feet of a school without a LTCH.

I'll prove that it's not:

US Code Title 18 Section 922



http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00921.html

Like someone else, I assumed we were talking handguns here here carried legally

 

[Roadie]

So, now I am cornfuzzled..

I live in an apartment, my back door is less than 1000ft from BGHS.
My previous understanding was that if I have an LTCH I would be OK until I crossed the property line...

 

[jedi]

So, now I am cornfuzzled..

I live in an apartment, my back door is less than 1000ft from BGHS.
My previous understanding was that if I have an LTCH I would be OK until I crossed the property line...

That is correct.

The 1000ft is a federal law but it has exemptions and one of those exemptions is that if you have a permit/license from your state then the 1000ft is NULL & VOID for you.

---
The state laws still apply. (ie. no guns on the school property)

 

[Roadie]

That is correct.

The 1000ft is a federal law but it has exemptions and one of those exemptions is that if you have a permit/license from your state then the 1000ft is NULL & VOID for you.

---
The state laws still apply. (ie. no guns on the school property)

OK, that's what I thought, thank you!

I got lost in the back n forth up there, lol.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Hey where is my cookie for being correct. =)

and please don't give me INGOs favorite kind.

The short answer to your question is YES: ALL parents at the co-op who attend the church function would need to give consent IN WRITING so you can carry at the "school function". Why? We are walking into a gray area because

1) The church is an OK zone when the co-op is NOT there for anyone (you, me, even the OP (by himself)
2) The church becomes a NO-NO zone for OP when the church is used in conjunction with his co-op because now we are not talking about just his "school" but multiple "schools" going to the church for an even AND the OP knows this.

Why the distinction at the last AND?

Well if I go to that church on the same day that the co-op is there to attend say a bible class (on the 1st floor while the co-op is in the basement) I can carry WITHOUT the consent of the co-op. Why? Cause it's reasonable that I won't know that the co-op is there and thus making it a school and furthermore I'm not at the school function or know of it.

This falls in line with the Indy Zoo and you going as part of a school event or you going as a private citizen and schools being present. Its the gray area of the law and there is NO CASE STUDY yet on it.

AGAIN THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE AND I AM NOT AN ATTY.

Sadly, Jedi, I believe you are mistaken. I asked a couple of months ago regarding a person being at McDonald's, eating lunch, when a school bus pulls into the parking lot outside and the kids come in to grab lunch. McDonald's has just become a property being used by a school for a school function (lunch for kids on a school field trip) without warning or notice, however, in this hypothetical situation, the attorney with whom I was conversing on here identified that knowledge and intent are not elements of the crime in 35-47-9-2.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

To wit: A person who possesses a firearm in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function commits a class D felony.

Thus, technically speaking, there is never a safe place for lawful carry in Indiana, except for places where there would never be a school function. Banks come to mind. So do bars.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jedi]

Sadly, Jedi, I believe you are mistaken. I asked a couple of months ago regarding a person being at McDonald's, eating lunch, when a school bus pulls into the parking lot outside and the kids come in to grab lunch. McDonald's has just become a property being used by a school for a school function (lunch for kids on a school field trip) without warning or notice, however, in this hypothetical situation, the attorney with whom I was conversing on here identified that knowledge and intent are not elements of the crime in 35-47-9-2.



To wit: A person who possesses a firearm in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function commits a class D felony.

Thus, technically speaking, there is never a safe place for lawful carry in Indiana, except for places where there would never be a school function. Banks come to mind. So do bars.

Blessings,
Bill

BoR way to go and remove my cookies. Looks like a court case may eventual occur to clean this mess up unless indy ends up cleaning up the text due to their unforsee consquences.

 

[rmabrey]

To wit: A person who possesses a firearm in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function commits a class D felony.

Thus, technically speaking, there is never a safe place for lawful carry in Indiana, except for places where there would never be a school function. Banks come to mind. So do bars.

Blessings,
Bill

and people give me hell for carrying in bars. Looks like its a\safer than Mcdonalds

 

[finity]

So, now I am cornfuzzled..

I live in an apartment, my back door is less than 1000ft from BGHS.
My previous understanding was that if I have an LTCH I would be OK until I crossed the property line...

As Jediagh said, you are OK.

Here is the relevant part of the part I posted above:

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

See the bolded part.

Carrying on your private property is completely legal.

The other parts above are the most commonly used exceptions to the federal "school zone" law.

 

[boileralum]

Sadly, Jedi, I believe you are mistaken. I asked a couple of months ago regarding a person being at McDonald's, eating lunch, when a school bus pulls into the parking lot outside and the kids come in to grab lunch. McDonald's has just become a property being used by a school for a school function (lunch for kids on a school field trip) without warning or notice, however, in this hypothetical situation, the attorney with whom I was conversing on here identified that knowledge and intent are not elements of the crime in 35-47-9-2.



To wit: A person who possesses a firearm in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function commits a class D felony.

Thus, technically speaking, there is never a safe place for lawful carry in Indiana, except for places where there would never be a school function. Banks come to mind. So do bars.

Blessings,
Bill

Actually, I remember taking a field trip to a bank as a child. At least the bars are still safe

 

[ATM]

I don't think lunch at McDonalds or most field trips could be legally construed to mean used by a school for a school function.

Maybe if they rented the place for a school function.

 

[jedi]

I don't think lunch at McDonalds or most field trips could be legally construed to mean used by a school for a school function.

Maybe if they rented the place for a school function.

I'm sure when this was made

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

that (2) was placed so that they could make "gun free zones" where proms (ie. hotel, hall, etc..) or other dances or lunch banquets for the sports team at halls could also be "gun free" what they did not realize was the unintended consequence of the text.

Reading the text as it is McDonald's also becomes a "gun free zone" when the school bus stops at it's place after an away game. Since the idea was that the "school kids" would have this "magic" gun free zone where ever they go.

The stupidity of the laws never cease to amaze me.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I don't think lunch at McDonalds or most field trips could be legally construed to mean used by a school for a school function.

Maybe if they rented the place for a school function.

I didn't think so either, but I don't have the right letters after my name for that to be a binding opinion. The redoubtable Mr. Freeman, Esq., does.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ATM]

I didn't think so either, but I don't have the right letters after my name for that to be a binding opinion. The redoubtable Mr. Freeman, Esq., does.

Blessings,
Bill

Well the letters after my name say L. Conquistador.

I'd drive up to Lafayette to argue with him if they hadn't posted all those cameras downtown.

I like to stay under the radar, ya know.

 

[45calibre]

isnt school also defined as being between the grades of K-12?

 

[jedi]

isnt school also defined as being between the grades of K-12?

Yes schools are K-12 +

licensed in the state of Indiana day care
Head Start programs
Pre-Schools
and several other items see the IC posted already in the tread (Sry don't have the number on hand). =(