Group Buy: Camp Perry CMP run

[T4rdV4rk]

Closed

Hi all,

I plan to make a trip to Camp Perry this Saturday (11/3/2012) to pick a Garand. I believe that I have all the "hoops jumped through" and have e-mailed the CMP to make sure that I will be able to purchase a firearm from them. Awaiting response from that.

That being said, I will offer to purchase and bring back anything from Camp Perry that anyone wants. I would require cash up front (sounds like a scheme right?). To avoid any straw sales, I'd also need to see ID beforehand and make sure I wasn't breaking any laws.

I'm in Chesterton and wouldn't want to drive far to meet for this.

I also apologize for the short notice to anyone interested, but I just now thought to offer this.

If anyone knows why this would be illegal, let me know and I will remove this immediately.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[KEHO]

IANAL and this is only my $0.02...

I'm assuming you're only offering to bring back accessories...

Buying a rifle for someone else is a straw purchase - even if they can legally own the firearm. Hence question number 11a on form 4473. "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm listed on this form?"

Here are the notes about that question as well:

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANS- FEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

 

[T4rdV4rk]

Oh yeah I guess you're right. Form 2A of the universal order form also states that I am buying this rifle for my personal use.

It's a bit silly because it wouldn't be much different than me buying an extra or two just to sell. Especially because I am not legally required to check ID. I guess it's illegal if it's premeditated? You also don't fill a 4473 out when purchasing from them I believe.

Let's just stick to accessories and ammo. If I get a wild hair I might pick more rifles than I need up and sell them later.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Would you be interested in someone riding shotgun? I have been pondering a Garand purchase for a while now. This could be the catalyst. There's a remote chance I could make a trip this Saturday.

If you are interested, would you mind PMing me with details of your trip? I think I meet all the requirements for a Garand purchase ... running off to check now.

 

[tatic05]

How are you able to make the purchase? I know through my range we have certain days we can go over and browse and buy. I did not know if it was open to the public?? Maybe Im not as special as I thought I was.

 

[T4rdV4rk]

How are you able to make the purchase? I know through my range we have certain days we can go over and browse and buy. I did not know if it was open to the public?? Maybe Im not as special as I thought I was.

Check this out:

CMP Stores

And I'm sure you're plenty special

 

[tatic05]

Check this out:

CMP Stores

And I'm sure you're plenty special

Thanks, but now I feel dumb

 

[jblomenberg16]

Just an FYI...what you are proposing sounds an aweful lot like a straw sale, as stated earlier. That said, there are a number of individuals who do go to the CMP stores and facilitate other individuals legally purchasing the rifles. They offer it as a "hand select" service of sorts for folks that otherwise wouldn't be able to purchase the rifle in person. This gives you the benefit of buying remote (which the CMP offers) but with the ability to ensure you get exactly what you want (CMP typically doesn't do custom orders or sort through certain grades for a certain rifle, although it is rumored to happen from time to time).


It more or less works like this:

Actual Buyer of the weapon tells the "hand select" individual what he/she is looking for (Rack Grade, Special Grade, WWII S/N, etc.).

Actual Buyer purchases said rifle through the CMP and complies with all CMP requirements to purchase the rifle through the online purchase.

Actual Buyer tells the CMP that the "hand select" indvidual will be acting more or less as their agent and picking out the rifle for them in person. The folks at the CMP store then work with the "hand select" individual to ensure the right rifles are set up to be purchased buy the Actual Buyer. I think the "hand select" person also has a letter from the Actual Buyer to verify his authority to do so.

The "Hand Select" individual then brings the rifle back with him, or has the CMP mail it through their normal processes.


So, in this case the Actual Buyer is in fact the Actual Buyer. The person doing the hand selecting is only that..and is not purchasing it as a go between.

 

[T4rdV4rk]

That makes sense. I'll remember that method for the future.

Since my offer, as proposed, appears to in fact be an illegal straw sale I'm going to close this thread. Thanks everybody.