Long Range Rifle Training

[samrothstein01]

The responses are interesting here (tagged for interest). I am very fond of long range shooting and pushing the limits, and would like to "get serious" about it. The kind of curriculum mentioned is exactly what I would need, as I am a devoted kentucky windage shooter.

The problem I have with formal training is that I think I would prefer an "informal" setting to start with. That would allow me to soak in the concepts/details/logistics before moving onto formal training. Despite being a KW shooter, i am very meticulous, and I would have too many questions and need to digest the information (holding up the class I am sure.)

I got rid of every caliber above my .223's, but been considering for some time getting back into .308, or moving up beyond that. I just can't get myself to budge on the ammo prices when I can reload and shoot .223 so inexpensively and shoot it often.

 

[42769vette]

when da coach and i went out with the 223 it took a couple hits to get on target at 750. honestly the main reason was getting the spotting scope adjusted right to see vapor trail. you cant see hits at that range with a 4x scope. with a good spotter you should be on your second shot.

223 is more than capable of hits at 750 with every shot, plus you will learn more. i pratice with my rimfire at 350 yards. after that i move to somthing like a 308 at 750 and the wind calls are easy once you stop over correcting

 

[samrothstein01]

223 is more than capable of hits at 750 with every shot, plus you will learn more. i pratice with my rimfire at 350 yards. after that i move to somthing like a 308 at 750 and the wind calls are easy once you stop over correcting

I agree whole heartedly. I am fairly set on the 223, and have standardized on it for all intensive purposes. I just can't help going back to wanting something bigger and badder every once in a while, with 50bmg constantly peaking my interest.

That being said, learning more is exactly what I want to do. Last spring in TN I tried to push the limits of my Remmy bolt 223. Shot from one mountain across to another, and eventually hit a 1/2 pound tannerite target, roughly a 3"x4" target. (Of course it didn't go off, the velocity was too low at that point.) We estimated the distance to be between 900 and 1200 yards. This spring I am taking a good range finder to confirm actual distance.

It took me about 60 shots to actually make the hit, but after my 3rd shot I was never more than a foot away, with most of them being within inches. The problem is that I did it all with holdovers, no adjustments. I am anxious to start learning, developing a drop chart, etc and actually learn how to push the limits rather than using kw.

I could probably use some better glass too....more on the list of wants.

 

[42769vette]

I agree whole heartedly. I am fairly set on the 223, and have standardized on it for all intensive purposes. I just can't help going back to wanting something bigger and badder every once in a while, with 50bmg constantly peaking my interest.

That being said, learning more is exactly what I want to do. Last spring in TN I tried to push the limits of my Remmy bolt 223. Shot from one mountain across to another, and eventually hit a 1/2 pound tannerite target, roughly a 3"x4" target. (Of course it didn't go off, the velocity was too low at that point.) We estimated the distance to be between 900 and 1200 yards. This spring I am taking a good range finder to confirm actual distance.

It took me about 60 shots to actually make the hit, but after my 3rd shot I was never more than a foot away, with most of them being within inches. The problem is that I did it all with holdovers, no adjustments. I am anxious to start learning, developing a drop chart, etc and actually learn how to push the limits rather than using kw.

I could probably use some better glass too....more on the list of wants.

once you learn to dial a scope to the proper zero you wont ever use any other system again for range work. i still use kentucky windage on hunting rifles (or atleast know where my holdovers are) because animals dont stand still as long as a steel target.

first and formost in dialing for range is getting a scope that tracks as it should. if your scope does not track you are basically unsighting in your rifle. you may dial out to 1000 yards but you can kiss your 200 yard zero goodbye if you do.

personally i rarely dial for wind. i dial elevation and hold wind. the reason for this is wind is constantly changing and i dont want to come off scope to make a few more clicks durring a gust, only to get back on target and the gust die and have to do it all over again. i dial elevation and hold wind so i can just change my hold point to compensate for wind changes, but to each their own

 

[billmyn]

i prefer a good extended mildot reticle everything you need for ranging and engaging targets without having to adjust zero but still must be good quality

 

[DaCoach]

just a update we put tim's rifle out to 750 yds earlier this week. i think he might be hooked on long range shooting.

Being able to stretch both the .308 and .223 out to 750 yards was definitely one of the most fun things I have done with gun. Alan is right in stating I am hooked. I just find long range shooting to be the type of challenge I really enjoy. I cannot thank Alan enough for taking me out on his range.

 

[sloughfoot]

Here is another source for reading the wind by a highly experienced rifle shooter.....

www.jarheadtop.com

Here is the formula that works for the 308 at 1000 yards. Each MPH of wind that is full value, requires one minute of correction. Half value wind, then divide it in half. So a full value 5 mph wind requires 5 minutes correction. 5 MPH at half value requires 2 1/2 minutes. Or so.....

For high BC bullets like the 142 out of the 6.5/284, it is usually about 3/4 minute for each mph of full value wind. Or so.....

That is the end of my lesson. Now go out and shoot in the wind and find out for yourself.

The best classroom for learning long range shooting is a NRA long range match with a spotter behind you and someone in the pits to pull and mark your target. You will figure it out pretty quick with all that instant feedback.

If you are not sure about come-ups, I can post that too. There is nothing magical or unknown about it..

 

[Whitsettd8]

Try "Prone and Long Range Rifle Shooting" by Nancy Tompkins.

Also, "Precision Shooting at 1,000 yards By Dave Brennan.

Neither one is a "tactical sniper" kind of book. Just lots of practical information and background on shooting and reloading for long range

Good luck and I hope to see you on the range.

IMO, Sniperco should have both books on the shelf.....

BTW, come ups are standard and are taught in the Appleseed program. There is nothing magical about come ups, especially for the 308 cartridge.

Thank you for the information I bumped you some REP
Secondary question my next build is going to be a long range rifle and wanted a bit of insight on the 6.5-284 vs. the 7mm.
The gun will be used to hunt and long range target shooting
Probably a Savage 111 LRH
I like the off the shelf availability of the 7mm ammo vs. the 6.5 but I'm not aware or other pros or cons

 

[Mike.B]

Has anything developed to bring these training classes to reality? I would be very interested in attending.

 

[firemedic140]

Has anything developed to bring these training classes to reality? I would be very interested in attending.

I'm still waiting for a start date. I haven't been in the shop much due to another job. I will post up as soon as I hear a date for the first class.

 

[sloughfoot]

You guys looking for a "class" might look to just show up at a long range match. You will find lots of mentors if you are willing to ask and learn. Your score keeper can be your best friend for the day, and a great teacher.

When it is your turn to be his scorekeeper, the learning continues. You can learn a lot just by watching his bullet trace and talking to him about the shot.

Most long range shooters learned on the range. I continue to learn at every match.

1000 yard matches are conducted at Camp Atterbury, Camp Perry, Oak Ridge, Ft Knox, Milan, IL and many more ranges.

It seems that folks are intimidated. Just show up willing to learn and a dozen guys will be jumping up asking to help you.

 

[Mog]

We are looking to add a couple of long range "practice days" to our CIHPRS long range schedule for 2012. Waiting to hear confirmation of the dates for the ranges.

Mog

You guys looking for a "class" might look to just show up at a long range match. You will find lots of mentors if you are willing to ask and learn. Your score keeper can be your best friend for the day, and a great teacher.

When it is your turn to be his scorekeeper, the learning continues. You can learn a lot just by watching his bullet trace and talking to him about the shot.

Most long range shooters learned on the range. I continue to learn at every match.

1000 yard matches are conducted at Camp Atterbury, Camp Perry, Oak Ridge, Ft Knox, Milan, IL and many more ranges.

It seems that folks are intimidated. Just show up willing to learn and a dozen guys will be jumping up asking to help you.

 

[sloughfoot]

We are looking to add a couple of long range "practice days" to our CIHPRS long range schedule for 2012. Waiting to hear confirmation of the dates for the ranges.

Mog

This is great news Sue. Hopefully some of the guys nervous about shooting long range will take advantage of this.

I would show up just to help these guys, if they would just show up.....

 

[shooter1054]

This is great news Sue. Hopefully some of the guys nervous about shooting long range will take advantage of this.

I would show up just to help these guys, if they would just show up.....

I just need to know when and where. If it is not conflicting with work, fishing, or training, I'm in.

 

[42769vette]

You guys looking for a "class" might look to just show up at a long range match. You will find lots of mentors if you are willing to ask and learn.

truier words were never spoken. i was shocked at how helpfull everyone was my first time even though i was competing against them.

 

[sloughfoot]

truier words were never spoken. i was shocked at how helpfull everyone was my first time even though i was competing against them.

The fate of the free world is not dependant on the outcome of any rifle match.

We are just a bunch of guys and gals doing our best and if given the opportunity, to pass on a little of what we have learned.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'd love to try to learn at a long range match. One of my goals this year is to get to one.

 

[sloughfoot]

It is just a matter of setting priorities, isn't it?

Truthfully, I have not shot long range myself for the last two years.

I have let other things get in the way.

The rifle is leaning against the wall, the primed empty cases and bullets are sitting in the box. I have plenty of powder.

Maybe the chance to coach a new shooter will get my sorry, lazy butt back on the 1000 yard line....

 

[shooter1054]

Working time out can be a bigger challenge than actually hitting the target. I have fishing tournaments scheduled, training classes to take/assist, and I have to make some money every now and then.