Meet and 1911 Shoot with AllenM.
Today I met up with AllenM to shoot 1911s in calibers other then the infamous .45, in response to the thread I started about 1911 caliber preference-> https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/176779-1911_caliber_preference.html Lets just say this occasion was a real eye opening experience in multiple ways.
Allen brought a commander 10mm 1911, commander 1911 with barrels for .40S&W and .357Sig, and a government 9mm 1911. All of these guns were top of the line, beautiful 1911’s. AllenM does a great job with the Fusion kits. In another life (maybe this one, if he pursued it), he would make a great 1911 builder. I was amazed with the fit/finish and quality of all of the guns he brought. A quick synopsis of the different calibers:
The .357Sig was a real shooter. Shooting the rounds he had loaded, I watched Allen shoot groups inside 1” off-hand at about 20 yards. That’s a real shooter, but has some real recoil. Allen said they weren’t loaded to the max, but they weren’t light load by any means. The recoil isn’t intolerable, but not a round I would want to shoot for an extended shooting session. It’s said that .357Sig isn’t reliable in 1911’s due to the short C.O.A.L., that wasn’t the experience today. This setup was absolutely reliable.
The .40S&W barrel in the same gun, shoot factory Remington HP, was snappier then I had expected for a metal framed handgun. It wasn’t any means like the .357Sig, but not soft. This setup wasn’t shooting 1” groups like the .357Sig, but the 3” groups Allen put on paper was very respectable. I’m sure a load could be developed to simulate the more mild 9mm. It is worth mentioning that the factory ammo in this setup wasn’t absolutely reliable. It could be caused by a limp wrist, or from the factory ammo used. Reloading to adjust the C.O.A.L. with different bullet shapes may resolve the reliability issue.
The 9mm government setup was a real sweet setup. Recoil was very different, light push with controllable muzzle flip. This was very fun and easy to shoot, as expected. I had shot one other 9mm 1911, so I had an idea what to expect.
Last but not least, the 10mm commander. I was warned that it had some “pop,” I don’t think that describes it. That thing was awesome. I’ll describe the recoil as a heavy push with a sharp muzzle flip. The gun had a 24lb recoil spring, and still it sent the brass about 15’ in the rear-right direction. Let’s just say we weren’t able to recover much of the 10mm brass for reloading.
I brought along my .45 target/fun 1911 and a .45 GI with light reloads for comparison. I discovered that my GI has hammer fall (that’s a whole other post for the future) and my target operated as typical.
To sum up the different 1911 caliber’s and my preference, I think I have come to the conclusion that for target/plinking a 9mm setup is probably the way to go. The economics of shooting 9mm wins in my opinion. I think adequate self-defense setups can be had in all cartridges we shot today; 9m, .357Sig, .40S&W, .45, and 10mm. Some may put more energy on target then other, but I think all would do. After shooting a 10mm handgun I can see how that round has been used in hunting rolls. 10mm rounds really push out some power.
Now on to the alarming thing I found out today, I need trigger time with a non target setup! I should preclude the following paragraph with a statement; my normal target/practice gun has had work done to it. To put it lightly, no pun intended, the trigger is real light and I normally shoot light loads. The first thing that became real evident is that my shooting fundamentals have slid into the gutter. I picked up Allen’s beautiful 1911’s and wasn’t even able to hit paper at first with anything except the 9mm. His 9mm was a target setup similar to my 1911. It became real clear I have become spoiled, and now my trigger pull/control has suffered. The triggers on AllenM’s were real nice, I estimate right at 4.5 lbs, had very clean breaks, and nice reset. My sloppy trigger control showed with the heavier triggers then I have been practicing with. The heavier recoil also played with me. I was anticipating recoil, flinching, and all kinds of bad things. By the end of the shoot I was able to get some shots on paper with the 10mm, but I was really focusing on the fundamentals.
Conclusion for the day, at this point I don’t think I can expand my collection with other calibers at this point. I want to get a setup so I can get my trigger fundamentals in check. I am going to stick to the .45 platform and develop a full power load in a “non-competition” gun so I can practice trigger control/fundamentals.
The last thing I want to say is a “Thanks” to AllenM. He is an outstanding person. He was very willing to share his knowledge and experience. I had an outstanding time, and learned a lot in the process about myself and 1911’s.
-CB45
Today I met up with AllenM to shoot 1911s in calibers other then the infamous .45, in response to the thread I started about 1911 caliber preference-> https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/176779-1911_caliber_preference.html Lets just say this occasion was a real eye opening experience in multiple ways.
Allen brought a commander 10mm 1911, commander 1911 with barrels for .40S&W and .357Sig, and a government 9mm 1911. All of these guns were top of the line, beautiful 1911’s. AllenM does a great job with the Fusion kits. In another life (maybe this one, if he pursued it), he would make a great 1911 builder. I was amazed with the fit/finish and quality of all of the guns he brought. A quick synopsis of the different calibers:
The .357Sig was a real shooter. Shooting the rounds he had loaded, I watched Allen shoot groups inside 1” off-hand at about 20 yards. That’s a real shooter, but has some real recoil. Allen said they weren’t loaded to the max, but they weren’t light load by any means. The recoil isn’t intolerable, but not a round I would want to shoot for an extended shooting session. It’s said that .357Sig isn’t reliable in 1911’s due to the short C.O.A.L., that wasn’t the experience today. This setup was absolutely reliable.
The .40S&W barrel in the same gun, shoot factory Remington HP, was snappier then I had expected for a metal framed handgun. It wasn’t any means like the .357Sig, but not soft. This setup wasn’t shooting 1” groups like the .357Sig, but the 3” groups Allen put on paper was very respectable. I’m sure a load could be developed to simulate the more mild 9mm. It is worth mentioning that the factory ammo in this setup wasn’t absolutely reliable. It could be caused by a limp wrist, or from the factory ammo used. Reloading to adjust the C.O.A.L. with different bullet shapes may resolve the reliability issue.
The 9mm government setup was a real sweet setup. Recoil was very different, light push with controllable muzzle flip. This was very fun and easy to shoot, as expected. I had shot one other 9mm 1911, so I had an idea what to expect.
Last but not least, the 10mm commander. I was warned that it had some “pop,” I don’t think that describes it. That thing was awesome. I’ll describe the recoil as a heavy push with a sharp muzzle flip. The gun had a 24lb recoil spring, and still it sent the brass about 15’ in the rear-right direction. Let’s just say we weren’t able to recover much of the 10mm brass for reloading.
I brought along my .45 target/fun 1911 and a .45 GI with light reloads for comparison. I discovered that my GI has hammer fall (that’s a whole other post for the future) and my target operated as typical.
To sum up the different 1911 caliber’s and my preference, I think I have come to the conclusion that for target/plinking a 9mm setup is probably the way to go. The economics of shooting 9mm wins in my opinion. I think adequate self-defense setups can be had in all cartridges we shot today; 9m, .357Sig, .40S&W, .45, and 10mm. Some may put more energy on target then other, but I think all would do. After shooting a 10mm handgun I can see how that round has been used in hunting rolls. 10mm rounds really push out some power.
Now on to the alarming thing I found out today, I need trigger time with a non target setup! I should preclude the following paragraph with a statement; my normal target/practice gun has had work done to it. To put it lightly, no pun intended, the trigger is real light and I normally shoot light loads. The first thing that became real evident is that my shooting fundamentals have slid into the gutter. I picked up Allen’s beautiful 1911’s and wasn’t even able to hit paper at first with anything except the 9mm. His 9mm was a target setup similar to my 1911. It became real clear I have become spoiled, and now my trigger pull/control has suffered. The triggers on AllenM’s were real nice, I estimate right at 4.5 lbs, had very clean breaks, and nice reset. My sloppy trigger control showed with the heavier triggers then I have been practicing with. The heavier recoil also played with me. I was anticipating recoil, flinching, and all kinds of bad things. By the end of the shoot I was able to get some shots on paper with the 10mm, but I was really focusing on the fundamentals.
Conclusion for the day, at this point I don’t think I can expand my collection with other calibers at this point. I want to get a setup so I can get my trigger fundamentals in check. I am going to stick to the .45 platform and develop a full power load in a “non-competition” gun so I can practice trigger control/fundamentals.
The last thing I want to say is a “Thanks” to AllenM. He is an outstanding person. He was very willing to share his knowledge and experience. I had an outstanding time, and learned a lot in the process about myself and 1911’s.
-CB45
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