Milwaukee PD to be sued over OC incident

[hick185]

Hey guys this is my first post so I apologize if I didn't post this is the correct spot. I heard about this on another forum. Sorry I don't know how to quote from a source but here is a link.
New Charges Filed In Culver's Open Carry Case - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee
I tried to find Milwaukee's police procedure when they are called to someone OCing but all I could find was Madison, Wisconsin's. And according to that the men didn't actually have to disturb anyone. Only that the conduct in question be of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance. Just thought I would share that with you all.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't have the link to the 9-1-1 call handy, but these guys have a slam dunk case.

Short version, when I use quotes, it's verbatium when I use ' it's paraphrasing:
O= opperator
C= 62 y/o lady caller

O- "9-1-1 what is your emergency"
C- "I don't think it's an emergency but" 'there are "two guys here with holstered sidearms" outside the Culvers.

O- 'What are they doing? how are they acting, dressed?'
C- 'they aren't doing anything' "They appear very relaxed, one is leaning against his car" "they are just talking"

O- asks some other similar questions to above
C- "No, no, they are relaxed" "No they aren't threatening anyone" "I just thought I shouls call" 'you know, just in case'.

HERE is where it gets crystal clear:
O- "Ok ma'am at this point I'd like to let you know that open carry of handgun is now legal in Wisconsin"
C- "Really? I didn't know that. You would think they would have told us"
O- "Yes ma'am, are they disturbing you?"
C- "No, I guess there is no problem then, sorry, I didn't know it was legal. Never mind."

And now it goes 100% in the other direction. Realize the caller just said "there is no problem".

O- 'we can send them out anyway, just to check up on it'
C- ' I didn't know, I was just calling just in case, you know, "I didn't know it was ok" '

At that point the opperator starts getting descriptions and dispatches EIGHT cops for 2 guys who the caller says is NOT a problem and says nevermind.

It isn't until they arrive that the cops realize there are 5 OC'ers and not 2.

Slam dunk lawsuit IMO. The officers need to terminated for illegal search and siezure, wrongful imprisonment, threatening ect. ect.

There is NO excuse for this.

Also realize that OC is legal in WI (and has been for a very long time, not recently) and does NOT require any sort of license or permit of any kind.

 

[buckstopshere]

If it were five gay guys (strike that, let's make it girls cuz...damn that's gross) openly flaunting their homosexually and caused this 62 year old woman to feel "uneasy", would the 9 1 1 dispatcher send the police? It's unbelivable how this police department responded. I'm glad they're taking action and not letting this rest.

BTW....to

 

[Rookie]

I've listened to the recordings that the OC'ers have and it's pretty obvious (to me) that the disorderly conduct charges are a pathetic attempt to cover the police officers violation of their 4th amendment rights.

 

[Demo]

You can read all about it with updates at opencarry.org in the WI section. The WI people have their act together and are already suing. They also have a great lawyer defending them.

I recommend checking it out. You may be surprised to read even listen to podcasts on what some of the "defense experts" have to say about us commoners.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Since this happened in Madison why are they suing the Milwaukee PD?

 

[j706]

Wow that is crazy. Does anyone know where the disorderly charge is coming from?

 

[indykid]

Guessing the disorderly charge came from the "we just have to write them up on something" mentality.

 

[Demo]

As far as I've read they are suing the Madison PD.

The disorderly charges are exactly that- some kind of cover your butt deal. It's funny that three of the five showed their ID and where still sent tickets a few days later.

The entire "disorderly" charge needs to have a tighter definition. Seems like it's the last resort all the time.

 

[CSK22]

http://www.wisconsincarry.org/video/Madison5-911.wav


That is the 911 call.....absolutely absurd. Amazing how nice the caller was though.

 

[G_Stines]

First of all, no permits are required, but no CC carry is legal either. So its OC or NoC. Second, its kind of two faced because the WI laws concerning firearms state. "Carrying Firearms in Public. Wisconsin law does not specifically prohibit the open carrying of loaded or unloaded firearms in public, but a person doing so may risk being arrested and charged with disorderly conduct, on the grounds that the display threatens the public peace or safety." Taken from LRB–00–WB–11 pg 2 with link:http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf

So its NoC or OC, but oh yeah if you OC you can get arrested for it. Any one else allergic to bull*Sneeze*. Oh man, my allergies are really bad.

EDIT: To the OP, good contribution. I will throw you a +1 for breaking the ice with such a great contribution.

 

[Zoub]

Racine PD already lost a similar case and paid $10,000 in damages. I will see if I can find the link.

 

[TJSieling]

The thing that sucks about this is I'm going up to a city about a half hour south of Madison for Christmas and was looking forward to carrying up there.

Here is my question... If it is only legal to have a gun in your car if it is unloaded, locked, in a case, and in the trunk, you would have to load it after you got out of your car and put it in the holster... Can't do this in the car, because that would make the way you're transporting the gun illegal, but standing outside of your car loading a firearm to put it in a holster would come off as a threat.

My question is how did they manage to get their guns on their sides in the first place without people freaking out beforehand?

And are there any suggestions on how I should go about carrying in Wisconsin to prevent something like this? (not carrying is not an option, I will put that out there now).

 

[serpicostraight]

sounds to me like something one of our own is going thru right now. the cops effed up and filed a bogus charge to cya. its the oldest rule in the book for cops if you think they are gonna beef you charge them with something.

 

[Rookie]

Racine PD already lost a similar case and paid $10,000 in damages. I will see if I can find the link.

One if the guys that they arrested for obstruction is the same guy that won the Racine case. My favorite statement was from one of the cops, "you aren't going to win any landmark supreme court case with this."

 

[serpicostraight]

i lived in kenosha in the early 90s and the popo frowned on anybody carrying except them and it wasnt a well kept secret.

 

[ATM]

Original thread on this topic here:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ll_harass_people_who_follow_state_oc_law.html

 

[PatriotPride]

Sue them to dust, then sue them some more. Make it too costly for them to break the law and they'll get the idea. It's the same principle that's used with us regarding speeding.

 

[Joe Williams]

Wow that is crazy. Does anyone know where the disorderly charge is coming from?

Looks to me like someone pulled them from their butt. They wanted to make a point, and hassle American citizens for exercising their rights. It's an abuse of their badges, and that's something that really pisses me off.

This is not the first lawsuit of it's kind in WI. It's well known that OC is perfectly legal, but there are politicians and police leadership from various departments threatening just this kind of action against American citizens violating no law.

Lawsuits aren't enough. Police officers like this are knowingly and willfully violating the rights of American citizens. This isn't a training issue, this isn't an issue of not knowing the law. It's an issue of abusing Americans because some politicians, department leadership, and officers do not like the law. This is criminal activity, not civil negligence.

 

[Bill of Rights]

First of all, no permits are required, but no CC carry is legal either. So its OC or NoC. Second, its kind of two faced because the WI laws concerning firearms state. "Carrying Firearms in Public. Wisconsin law does not specifically prohibit the open carrying of loaded or unloaded firearms in public, but a person doing so may risk being arrested and charged with disorderly conduct, on the grounds that the display threatens the public peace or safety." Taken from LRB–00–WB–11 pg 2 with link:http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf

So its NoC or OC, but oh yeah if you OC you can get arrested for it. Any one else allergic to bull*Sneeze*. Oh man, my allergies are really bad.

EDIT: To the OP, good contribution. I will throw you a +1 for breaking the ice with such a great contribution.

I thought there was a statement from the state Attorney General that the mere carrying of a firearm (i.e. in a holster) was not grounds for a Disorderly Conduct charge.
If I'm remembering that correctly, this is simply a police chief ordering his officers (and dispatchers) to act in opposition to the AG's official opinion.

Suing them to dust will serve no purpose unless it is the individuals who are responsible and they are personally named and void of their "qualified" (or is it "limited"?) immunity from prosecution. If it comes out of the city coffers, all it means is that the officers have to step up enforcement of traffic laws or that the city council has to raise everyone's taxes to make up the shortfall in the city budget. Go after the individuals and the point will be made clear.

Of course, the best solution would be to change the freakin' law to stop disallowing people's rights.

Blessings,
Bill