Need auto help... car won't start

[CountryBoy19]

Car: 2000 Buick LeSabre, 216k miles

Symptoms:
This just started last week... I went to jump in my car and nothing, starter won't even "click". Battery is good, starter hasn't given any indication of problems. Worked one minute, didn't work the next. I've gotten it to start a couple times since then by playing around flipping key on/off several times and just repetitively trying.

Suspects:
security system (PK3 key not working right???), transmission indicator switch (car thinks it's in gear??), starter relay failed, ignition switch failure?

What do I need help with? Seeing as how most of the involved components can be expensive to replace, how do I troubleshoot before replacing them? Start with the easiest/cheapest first and work up from there? Start from the top down (ignition switch working down to starter solenoid)? Or is there a likely culprit that I should check first?

Normally I would google this, but it's very hard to search for problems related to "car wont' start" because there are millions of unrelated hits and it's super hard to wade through them all...

 

[Leadeye]

Quick cheap thing to check is battery cable connections, take them off, clean and reinstall.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Check all of the fuses. Make sure none have become unseated. (long shot but it's cheap and easy).

If you want, I may be able to download the schematics when I get back to work on Monday.

 

[K_W]

Sounds like an ignition switch.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

Sounds like an ignition switch.

Seconded.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Quick and dirty to check the starter, take a jumper cable from the positive battery terminal to the main starter power lug. That rules out or finds one problem.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Also try to start it in neutral - to see if it MAY be the transmission indicator switch. Should still start in N. At least I think MY old Buicks did.

 

[Informed Decision]

Does the key turn like it used to? Hard to remove ? No lights on dash when key is turned? I'm going with the ignition switch. Sometimes they'll warn you by acting up. & sometimes they don't. Sounds like you're past that point though. Might look into taking it to a automotive school, if you have one close by & let them play with it. Might not cost as much!

 

[bwframe]

Sometimes the mechanical part of the ignition switch assembly has loosened or broken something that can be remedied?
Looks like yours is a smart key? Have you tried another, known good, key?

 

[Brian Ski]

Car: 2000 Buick LeSabre, 216k miles

Symptoms:
This just started last week... I went to jump in my car and nothing, starter won't even "click". Battery is good, starter hasn't given any indication of problems. Worked one minute, didn't work the next. I've gotten it to start a couple times since then by playing around flipping key on/off several times and just repetitively trying.

Well I would start with have someone look at the headlights. Are they bright? When you hit the key do they stay bright?? If so it rules out battery connection.

Not sure how mechanical you are... If you can short the large terminal at the starter (the one with the batter cable) to the small terminal (small wire with a screwdriver), does it crank??? If so the problem is back toward wiring, ignition switch or neutral safety switch. Problem is to get to those terminals it is usually under the car in a hard to reach place.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Not a battery connection issue, everything remains powered and voltage meter (everybody has one of those installed in their vehicle right??) doesn't drop when "start" is engaged on the ignition.
Putting in neutral doesn't change anything
Using a different, known-good key doesn't change anything
Swapping some relays around (several accessory relays are the same as the ignition/starter relays) didn't change anything

Next up is crawling underneath to see if a direct hit to the pos starter terminal does the trick. If so, looks like I'm in for an ignition switch replacement.

 

[HoughMade]

I suggest hitting the starter itself, closer to the solenoid end...with a hammer, and if that works, replacing the starter.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Now I'm starting to get baffled...
Multimeter clipped on the start signal wire terminal on the starter (the one that tells it that it's "go-time") shows <1 volt with key in "run" position and 11.9 volts with the key in "start position. So it's getting the "start" signal...

But a jumper from battery pos to the start signal terminal engages the starter and it turns the car over...

The only thing I can think is that there is some corrosion on that terminal giving intermittent problems. I'm going to pull it apart, clean it up and see if that changes anything...


ETA, I guess the time I jumped the start signal wire and it turned over was a "fluke" where it decided to work. I pulled the starter completely out and played with it on the bench. I got it to click and turn once but only once in multiple attempts. I think it's safe to say it's the starter solenoid. $72 dollars shipped for brand new, lifetime warranty delco starter online or $190 for brand new, name-brand one in-store (advance). I can wait the estimated 3 days shipping to save $120...

 

[Dead Duck]

Did you try uncoiled rice?

 

[shibumiseeker]

With your vom you can check resistance across terminals and anything more than a few hundreths ohms indicates too much resistance.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Now I'm starting to get baffled...
Multimeter clipped on the start signal wire terminal on the starter (the one that tells it that it's "go-time") shows <1 volt with key in "run" position and 11.9 volts with the key in "start position. So it's getting the "start" signal...

But a jumper from battery pos to the start signal terminal engages the starter and it turns the car over...

The only thing I can think is that there is some corrosion on that terminal giving intermittent problems. I'm going to pull it apart, clean it up and see if that changes anything...


ETA, I guess the time I jumped the start signal wire and it turned over was a "fluke" where it decided to work. I pulled the starter completely out and played with it on the bench. I got it to click and turn once but only once in multiple attempts. I think it's safe to say it's the starter solenoid. $72 dollars shipped for brand new, lifetime warranty delco starter online or $190 for brand new, name-brand one in-store (advance). I can wait the estimated 3 days shipping to save $120...

Rockauto.com?

 

[CountryBoy19]

Rockauto.com?

Yup! First heard about the wonder of rock-auto here on INGO and I rarely grace advance with my presence anymore... I understand they have to have a mark-up to have a brick and mortar store, but the markup on some things is just crazy... like this starter for example... almost 3 times the price to get it from a brick and mortar store...

 

[Brian Ski]

I suggest hitting the starter itself, closer to the solenoid end...with a hammer, and if that works, replacing the starter.

If you have the starter off, it would be best to wait and replace. A tap while someone holding the key can get you by in a pinch. Like you said it is once in a while. It will never be at a good time though.

BTW light taps, it does not take much. Remember there is a lot of plastic parts on the starter.

Glad you got it figured out.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yup! First heard about the wonder of rock-auto here on INGO and I rarely grace advance with my presence anymore... I understand they have to have a mark-up to have a brick and mortar store, but the markup on some things is just crazy... like this starter for example... almost 3 times the price to get it from a brick and mortar store...

They've gotten a fair amount of business from me the last few years.

 

[88E30M50]

Have you checked your relays yet? A bad main relay could give the exact issues you are seeing. If you have a decent schematic and can identify the main relay, check to see if there is an identical relay in a non-critical circuit and swap them to see if there's a change. I've seen lots of money thrown at vehicles only to find that it was a $15 relay all along. The things do age and die just like many other components.