On Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves

[KDUBCR250]

By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman and Loren W. Christensen


(copyrighted text removed)
To contact Loren, visit his website LWC Books at www.lwcbooks.com.
(here too)
To contact Col. Grossman, visit his website Killology at www.killology.com.

http://www.lwcbooks.com/articles/onsheepdogs.html

 

[TRWXXA]

I've read that many times before.

It's always good to read it again.

 

[TomN]

I've never read that before. Thank you for sharing!

 

[pierce195]

I've heard Lt. Col. Dave Grossman speak twice and go every chance I get.

 

[jamstutz]

Excavating an old thread...

I feel like an archeologist digging up an old thread like this, but I just finished watching Dave Grossman's 5 hour seminar The Bulletproof Mind, and I must say that this was one of the most powerful and valuable training sessions I have ever had the opportunity to experience. It is available on DVD from the United States Concealed Carry Association and I cannot recommend it highly enough. [I also recommend membership in the USCCA.] Anyone who carries a firearm for personal defense needs to see this presentation and I commend USCCA for making it available.

I attended three separate Street Survival Seminars with Lt Col Grossman and the other Calibre Press instructors over the course of my law enforcement career and each of these were great learning experiences. Grossman's textbook's On Combat and On Killing are required reading in my opinion, and On Killing was nominated for a Pulitzer prize.

5 out of 5 for The Bulletproof Mind!

 

[goColt]

I couldn't agree more. I attended The Bulletproof Mind seminar in Columbus, Oh on Sept 24th and it was truly life-changing. I have re-evaluated many aspects of my family's and my personal protection, including physical training, firearm training and most importantly mental training and conditioning. I have also already read On Killing and am currently reading On Combat. Both are great reading.

Col. Grossman is incredibly knowledgeable and a dynamic speaker. I am working on bringing him to central Indiana sometime, soon I hope.

I highly recommend hearing him and reading his works, it is some of the best time and money I have spent so far.

 

[rdg]

Thanks for the recommendations. Just downloaded "On Killing" from library to read. Didn't have "On Combat" in digital version so will get a copy of it as well and will try to secure a copy of "The Bulletproof Mind" DVD.

 

[Jeremiah]

I am less than impressed with Grossman. I always heard great things about his seminars, yet I doubt I ever attend one. most of the things of his I have read that he has written lead me to believe that he doesn't think most people should own guns, and that only the police an millitary should use force. I can't support that mentality. The Col Dave Grossman Debate - How Mistaken Is He?

 

[jamstutz]

...most of the things of his I have read that he has written lead me to believe that he doesn't think most people should own guns, and that only the police an millitary should use force. I can't support that mentality...

Nothing Lt Col Grossman said in The Bulletproof Mind Seminar would lead me to that conclusion. Quite the opposite, in fact. Perhaps some of his previous views were influenced by 9/11, or by other events that have occured since the debate you cite in your link.

 

[Soonerdoggy]

I agree and speaking with Col. Grossman, I also find the opposite true. He even states that when the muslim terrorists get us off their ground and come to ours, and try to attack our children as they have done so many times before in other countries, there is not enough military to put one on every schoolbus.
He also works with State Education Boards arming teachers.
Col. Grossman will take Sheepdogs wherever he can get them and train them.
I also talked to L.Christensen on his book about workplace violence. In it he indicates employees should not have firearms in the workplace, however, in our conversation he indicated he really meant "untrained" employees as he too wants more sheepdogs.

 

[Jeremiah]

Should teachers be armed? At least two states (Utah and New Hampshire) now authorize concealed-carry permits in schools, according to Grossman, and the Federal Safe Schools Act allows for it. Faculty with military experience and a willingness to receive additional training could be a starting point.
Mass Slaughter In Our Schools: The Terrorists' Chilling Plan? i didn't find a publication date, but in texts citations from 2004 and 2006.

He barely suggests armed teachers, and mentions nothing of students being armed. Not everyone will take the time to get well trained, but if someone has the willingness to protect themselves, understands the big four rules of gun safety, and basic marksmanship, then they could only help.

 

[goColt]

I am less than impressed with Grossman. I always heard great things about his seminars, yet I doubt I ever attend one. most of the things of his I have read that he has written lead me to believe that he doesn't think most people should own guns, and that only the police an millitary should use force. I can't support that mentality. The Col Dave Grossman Debate - How Mistaken Is He?

Until you hear him speak, you should not pass judgement. I heard him in Columbus, OH this past September and it was life-changing. I didn't hear him say anything coming close to disallowing citizens the right to own guns. True his emphasis is on military and police because that is where he spends most of his time: Either training/lecturing them, helping them deal with active situations or recovering from the aftermath of a situation. Also, since he studies "killology", I'd venture to say the military and police are where he finds the most amount of "study material".

As a matter of fact, there are three instances I can think of off the top of my head where he specifically supports the right of citizens to own guns. He states:

1) America is the only country in the world who guarantees their citizens the right to be armed and we need to defend it by getting involved with the political arena as well as educating the general populace (IE The Sheep).
2) America has three over-lapping lines of defense: 1) Military which is concerned with external, foreign threats; 2) Law-Enforcement; and 3) Armed citizen which are both concerned with domestic threats. He even stressed that the latter (armed citizens) is the largest force and can/should be used to supplement the law-enforcement force.
3) He said we need to get behind the national right-to-carry reciprocity law so that armed citizens can carry across state lines freely.

He barely suggests armed teachers, and mentions nothing of students being armed.

He is talking about elementary schools here, he isn't referring to colleges or even high-schools. So, armed students is not an option, whereas armed teachers are.

His account of the terrorist attack on the elementary school in Baslan, Russia is bone-chilling. What they did to those children and parents (mostly mothers) is horrific, including beheading of little girls and rape with AK-47 barrels. It was easy for the terrorists because of many factors, one of which was they were killing young, helpless children who couldn't fight back. Grossman states that the last thing a terrorist wants is a squad of 200lb high-school line-backers to contend with, so they will prey upon the young and the weak, just like any animal.

Also, his account of the teachers actions and inaction at places like Jonesboro, Columbine and other kids-killing-kids will make your blood boil. Most just say by, or hid, while their students were slaughtered.

If you choose not to go see him, that is your prerogative but you may end up missing out on a great experience and instead be bad-mouthing an ally.

 

[CalebToNowhere]

I received that in an email some time ago. Find myself forwarding it on at least once a month to someone that has not read it. Great read...!

 

[jeremy]

I am amused...

 

[John Galt]

I am amused...

How? By what?