Potential Error on Form 1

[ArmedRPh]

If my form 1 has already gone pending with the ATF and I think I just noticed an error on my part, what would be the best way to remedy the situation? Should I just call the BATFE straight away and tell them what I think is wrong or wait for them to get back to me?

The error in question is that I think I may not have put the complete serial number down. I'm doing a Draco conversion and I thought that, due to different quality of the engraving, only the last 2 letters and 4 numbers. Without including a picture, the whole marking looks something like this:

(Manuf Symbol)1974DR####

The Manuf symbol is a triangle that contains an upwards pointing arrow. The "1974" is a finer stamp, so I initially thought it was a model number, not the serial number...i.e.1974 = AK74 base model. The DR#### is a coarser stamp that looks like it would be the identifier for that particular receiver.

Point being, I now think that the ATF wants the whole "1974DR####" and not just the "DR####".

Anybody have any experience with this? Can anyone look at a Draco SBR conversion that they have done and let me know how many digits the serial number contains? I'd like to handle this in the best (legal) way possible that won't encourage the ATF to either delay or, God forbid, reject my form entirely.

 

[ryknoll3]

First of all, since it's a Form 1, the ATF won't KNOW that your serial # may not be correct, so it will be approved with the number you wrote down. It sorta sounds to me like you did it right to begin with, but I'm not that familiar with that mfg's serial stamping process.

If you're worried about it, call them right away and ask them to pull it and return it to you for correction. If you wait until it's an approved stamp, you'll likely have to send it back in with a letter requesting cancellation of the stamp and a refund, and then start all over again.

Wait until someone else chimes in that knows more about the serial #'s on these, but from how it sounds, you did it right.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

1. Contact the dealer that sold you the Draco and get the serial number from thier books.

2. If the serial number on your Form 1 doesn't match the serial number on the dealer's books send it back to the engraver and have them add the serial number you registered.

If the serial numbers match don't worry about it.

 

[ArmedRPh]

I'm sorry, are you saying to not worry if the "adjusted" numbers on the Draco SBR don't match those in the initial dealers book OR don't worry if the serial number on the finished SBR don't match those on the ATF tax stamp. Neither of those sound correct to me.

As far as changing the serial number goes, I thought those were pretty much sacrosanct and that they shouldn't be altered...ever. Maybe that's just from watching too much TV as a kid.

So are you saying that I can add my own serial number to it and, even though the other number will be present? As it stands right now, I don't think I put enough digits on the Form 1, so using an engraver to add digits isn't my problem if I understand you correctly. I need to take numbers away. See the OP.

I appreciate you time on this. It's my first NFA item, so I'm kinda cagey on it and I don't want to wait any longer than I have too. I want to get out and

 

[ctbreitwieser]

What he's saying is call the dealer you purchased the Draco from and see what SN# they have in their books for it. If the number in their books is the same as the number on your form 1, then don't worry abbout it. If its different, I would reccommend contacting the ATF and giving them the serial number you submitted, and then ask them to change it to new SN#. If they won't change it, you will most likely have to ask them to cancel your current forms, and submit new ones.

DO NOT CHANGE THE SERIAL NUMBER ON YOUR GUN!!

 

[ArmedRPh]

Thanks. That's what I figured, but I already may have screwed it up once and didn't want a repeat.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

The existing serial number was assigned by the importer. You cannot change the existing serial number, however you can assign your own serial number.

You are not required to use the same serial number that the importer used. You are free to assign your own serial number, and in certain situations must (like if you get two different weapons from two different manufacturers with the same serial number - you can not form 1 both of them with the same serial number) which you may have engraved on the weapon.

You may not obliterate or change the existing serial number that is already there. You can have a new serial number assigned and put on the weapon.

 

[Jtgarner]

To answer you original question, the serial number on my draco SBR form 1 is ####LL#### (four numbers, two letters* and four numbers)

* a O (capital o) is going to be registered as a 0 (zero), so if you have an O or a 0 just know when you call it is a 0

 

[ArmedRPh]

Is assigning a new serial number to a firearm as simple as taking the number that I get the Tax Stamp with and having it engraved when I have my name and location engraved on the receiver?

Example:
Name
Indianapolis, IN
New Serial Number

Or will I need to file the number with the ATF on another form of some sort? Can you point me to any supporting documentation on this so that I can stop asking you idiotic questions? I suppose I can do a google search, but if you know of something that has worked well for you in the past...

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Is assigning a new serial number to a firearm as simple as taking the number that I get the Tax Stamp with and having it engraved when I have my name and location engraved on the receiver?

Sort of, yes.

Let establish a couple definitions:

When you convert a firearm from one type (a rifle) to another (an SBR) you are manufacturing a firearm (SBR) that has never existed before. You may assign that new firearm any serial number you want, as long as you have never used that serial number on any other firearm you have ever manufactured.

You may not change or obliterate the markings for the original firearm (rifle). You may use the serial number that was originally used when the firearm (rifle) was manufactured for the firearm (SBR) you are manufacturing, but you are not required to. If you choose to use the same serial number, you enter it on the Form 1. If you choose to assign a new one, you enter the new serial number on the Form 1, and engrave it on the firearm.

Example:
Name
Indianapolis, IN
New Serial Number

Or will I need to file the number with the ATF on another form of some sort? Can you point me to any supporting documentation on this so that I can stop asking you idiotic questions? I suppose I can do a google search, but if you know of something that has worked well for you in the past...

Your Form 1 already has the serial number you are assigning to the firearm. That is the serial number that you sent in. If it the same as the serial number on the original Draco, you are good. If not all you have to do is engrave the new serial number on the firearm. Again, get the original firearm serial number from the dealer that sold you the Draco.

There are no idiotic questions, except the ones that you don't ask that will get you a felony for filling out an ATF form wrong. I have never done a Form 1. I am a 07/SOT who has created thousands of suppressors and who converts firearms to SBRs and machine guns all the time.

For the best answer call the ATF NFA Branch (304) 616-4500 and ask for a specialist. Explain the situation and they will give you a resolution. I talk to them 3 - 5 times a week. Contrary to a lot of speculation they are helpful and knowledgable (although they do have trouble mailing forms back where they are supposed to, but that's another story).

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Thats pretty cool. Thanks Steve.

Can the new serial # be a mixture of letters and numbers? or does it have to be numbers only?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Thats pretty cool. Thanks Steve.

Can the new serial # be a mixture of letters and numbers? or does it have to be numbers only?

It can be a mixture of letters and numbers, but it must contain at least one number.

 

[ArmedRPh]

Steve,
You are now officially my favorite person on INGO.

Thanks for your help on all of this. I'll give the ATF a call on Tuesday.

Happy Memorial Day. Thanks for your service. That includes any other service members that read this post.

 

[ArmedRPh]

Just to provide a bit of closure. Per SepmerFiUSMC's advice, I called the ATF and asked for a specialist. It took a few tries and I had to wait for a callback, but eventually I spoke with Ashley Newcomb, the examiner for Indiana. I was able to provide her with the missing serial number info over the phone and she will have someone on her end enter it into the computer. Because the incomplete number is already in the computer, she will have to send me a "please fix this" letter when she gets to my form 1. All told, it should only add a week or so to the process. Sure beats having what would amount to an illegal SBR.

BTW, my Form 1 went pending on April 17. She said she wouldn't be getting to the April pile until the end of December or beginning of Jan.

Thanks again Steve and everybody else that chimed in.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Just to provide a bit of closure. Per SepmerFiUSMC's advice, I called the ATF and asked for a specialist. It took a few tries and I had to wait for a callback, but eventually I spoke with Ashley Newcomb, the examiner for Indiana. I was able to provide her with the missing serial number info over the phone and she will have someone on her end enter it into the computer. Because the incomplete number is already in the computer, she will have to send me a "please fix this" letter when she gets to my form 1. All told, it should only add a week or so to the process. Sure beats having what would amount to an illegal SBR.

BTW, my Form 1 went pending on April 17. She said she wouldn't be getting to the April pile until the end of December or beginning of Jan.

Thanks again Steve and everybody else that chimed in.

Ashley Newcome must be one of the new assistants. Nichole Dudash is the actual examiner for us.

That really sucks about the pending april dates. I went pending on April 16 for two suppressors and an SBR. I was hoping to have them a lot sooner than that.

 

[ArmedRPh]

So as a follow-up to this long dead thread, let me update you a bit. I received the stamp in the mail today (Sept 8) with a cancellation date of Sept 5. So that whole worry about the ATF getting to the April pile in December or Jan was a bit overstated. That's the good news.
The bad new is, even though I had a conversation with them in June about the fact that I had mis-stated my serial number on the Form 1 I sent them, see post above from 6-1, they sent me a completed form 1 with a cancelled stamp...containing the partial serial number that I sent them. Unless someone can confirm for sure that I can just re-engrave the partial serial number that they have ok'd on my receiver, it looks like I'll have to make a phone call on Monday to the ATF to see what their recommendation is...God I hope it isn't a file for cancellation of this stamp and back to the end of the line thing.