Reloading advice .223

[kcwolf200]

My girlfriend will be picking up a bolt action rifle in .223. What are some loads that would work well?

I have some Hornady 68gr Match HPBT, but I am having a hell of a time getting consistent COAL out of these (even with the brass all measured to the same length). I was getting between 2.24-2.26, which is a lot af variation.

I am thinking of getting some Sierra 69gr MK. I have been very impressed with the Sierra's for my .30-06. Are these pretty good choices for bullets?

Her primary use will be target shooting from 100-300 yards. Rifle is a Savage Edge with 1 in 9" barrel. Thanks.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Both th 68's and 69's you mentioned should shoot very well. I have a Savage 10FP that is 1-9 and shoots the 68's lights out (we're talking MOA at 100yrds without trying real hard).

Both are a bit tough to get a consistent oal because they are a bit "sleeker" (not sure if that is a real word) than some of the other projectiles out there, like the 55, 62, etc. It all has to do with where the seating die touches the bullet. To get the same OAL you may have to load long and then adjust each round in.

I've not seen quick the variation you are seeing with my Hornady seating die. I see variation in the thousandths, which hasn't seemed to affect me too much yet.


As for loads, Varget is a great powder for accuracy and consistency. H335 is a good general purpose powder for the .223 as well, and you can find a lot of good load information for it.


I usually go with the loads published here:

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 

[Yeah]

Stuck with a 1 in 9" I would have to go with a 50 VMax for utility use. Barnes 45 TSX do well too. If just paper, those Sierras are all right, though I'm loathe to buy anything Sierra and I'd probably just stick to the 50s above if going only to the 300 yard mark.

All do well seated into the lands and propelled by H335 as fast as the brass says you can go. If anything is going to be whacked by speed though, it will be the Sierras.

What seating die is giving you the OAL variation?

 

[kcwolf200]

I am using the Lee dies. I have been pretty happy with them on my other calibers. These Hornady bullets are the only ones I have tried reloading in .223.

Girlfriend picked up the rifle today. Soon as the weather cooperates, we will go out and see how these shoot. I can't imagine very consistent with all the variation.

 

[red_zr24x4]

MY experience with my Savage 10FP -- The bullet weight depended on the powder I used. 55g FMJ shot great with AA2015 not so good with BLC2. 60g V-Max loves the BLC2. Once you find a powder it likes, start adjusting your seating depth, I don't remember mine without going and looking, but they barely fit in the magazine.

 

[Yeah]

I don't use Lee dies but I suspect they can't handle the long nose of the 68 Match. Though they aren't particularly long that is the usual culprit. If you mark up a bullet and seat it you can usually tell where the die is driving. I had some older Redding seaters that needed stem changes to handle A Max and Scenar profiles.

0.02" is a fair amount but if that falls between on the lands and into the lands you might have one of those throats that won't care.

 

[beau.brandt]

What press are you using? it may be that the plate is flexing and you are not getting the same pressure on each cartridge. I had that problem with a Lee press that allowed for manual indexing (can't remember the name now) but it allowed the plate that holds the die to move up just slightly and when i pushed real hard the bullet seated at a deeper depth than if I just gave a gentle push.

 

[kcwolf200]

I am using the Lee Anniversary kit press. I can't recall exactly what the press model is.

As for not being able to handle the long nose, if that were the problem, would the Sierra 69 gr MK work better? I recall reading somewhere that the 68 gr Hornadys tend to run pretty long.

 

[Leo]

One of the issues with Lee dies (as well as almost every other brand) and match bullets is that the recess in the seater punch is not the best fit for the long narrow point on the Match bullets. Call Lee and order an extra punch for your die (cheap). Find a friend with a lathe to drill out the middle so the bullet does not touch until well rearward of the point. Grease a bullet, and fill that hole with DEVCON , body putty or another adhesive that is made to fill gaps. Seat the greased bullet and let the compound set up. You will now have a seater that is more consistant in relation to the ogive diameter, which is really the dimension that affects accuracy. As long as the point of the bullet clears the magazine box, it really does not matter. I made several that way, one for Amax, one for 80 grain MatchKings, one for Berger VLD's. Worked for me for 1000's of rounds over a dozen years.

Some of the top shelf custom die companies have a service where you send them bullets and they custom machine a bullet punch for you. Big bucks, to accomplish the same thing.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Check the length of a hand full of your bullets I bet you'll find some of the variance is in the bullets themselves

 

[kludge]

If you are using hollow points, or even most other bullets, you can't get a good indication of consistency with calipers. You need something that lets you measure to the ogive. Just sayin'.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=66244/pid=33236/Product/DAVIDSON_SEATING_DEPTH_CHECKERS_6_MM

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34053/Product/Hornady_Lock_N_Load_Bullet_Comparator_Body

 

[DocIndy]

My experience....

My Stevens 200 is a 1 in 9 twist and it doesn't like heavy bullets. I've tried Black Hills 68 gr. match and it was horrible. I tried some Hornady 55 gr. V-MAX and it was cloverleafs at 100. I've loaded some 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips and the groups opened up some. I'm thinking my rifle likes flat based bullets. I'll be stockpiling the V -MAX for sure. I want to try some Fiocchi loads with the V-MAX. You can get them at Cabelas and Midway in 50 rd. boxes for the price of a 20 rd. box of Hornady. I've also glass bedded my Stevens and added a Sharp Shooters Supply trigger. It wears a Bushnell Banner 6-18 x 50 in Burris XTR rings on the Burris Tactical bases.

 

[red_zr24x4]

If you are using hollow points, or even most other bullets, you can't get a good indication of consistency with calipers. You need something that lets you measure to the ogive. Just sayin'.

DAVIDSON : Davidson Seating Depth Checkers -

HORNADY : Hornady Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Body -

While this is true, I've noticed you can get a good idea if there is a inconsistency with the bullets by using calipers

 

[kcwolf200]

So, quick update.

I emailed Hornady and told them the problem I was having. Below is their response.

"The Hornady .22 cal. 68 gr. BT-HP match bullet profile is not fitting the bullet seating stem profile of your Lee bullet seating die. Would recommend lapping out the bullet seating stem to fit the .22 cal. 68 gr. BT-HP bullet profile and the seating depth variations will go away."

I really don't want to be modifying my die. In the meantime, I ordered some Sierra 69 gr Matchkings and loaded some last night. My variations in OAL were from 2.25 to 2.26, which seems much better to me.

I did find some of my brass is a little short (1.74 to 1.75). What do you do with brass that is too short?

Still waiting on an opportunity to go shoot....

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Well, a seating die can't really match every single bullet on the market perfectly.

Lee will custom lap pretty much anything you need - and you could probably just buy the seating stem and swap it in, if needed. Not terrribly spendy - likely less than any other 2 die set you could purchase.

 

[red_zr24x4]

If it were me, I'd load and shoot them. But I'd also order a stem from Lee and modify it for the 68g bullet.
Not to knock your Girlfriend, but how good of a shot is she? If shes a new shooter I think I'd rather giver her as much trigger time as I could. Let her get comfortable shooting while you work on the ammo issues. The rounds will be safe to shoot.

 

[Iroquois]

DocINDY has a good point. Harry Mcgowen [Mcgowen Rifle Barrels] told me years
ago that the heavier bullets have to spin faster to stabilize. 1 in 9 sounds like the old
M16 twist that was for 55gr bullets. I'd buy boxes of several weights and try them
before I spent a lot of time trying to work up a load. Use the same brand, it will simplify
reloading.

 

[dross]

AR Crimping

Sorry, mistake.

 

[jblomenberg16]

DocINDY has a good point. Harry Mcgowen [Mcgowen Rifle Barrels] told me years
ago that the heavier bullets have to spin faster to stabilize. 1 in 9 sounds like the old
M16 twist that was for 55gr bullets. I'd buy boxes of several weights and try them
before I spent a lot of time trying to work up a load. Use the same brand, it will simplify
reloading.

1-9 is actually not a mil-spec twist.

Original M16 was 1-12 IIRC, and the latest 14.5" M4 is 1-7. 1-9 was one of the hybrid twist rates that was developed as a potential twist for the M4, but didn't get accepted by the military. It has caught on very well on the civilian/commecrial side as a barrel that shoots a variety of rounds well, ranging from the shorter lighter 50gr stuff, up to the heavier and longer 68 gr. and above.

In fact, Hornady recommends a 1-9 twist for their HBPT Match bullet. All that said, some folks have said that even the 1-9 doesn't shoot them as well as a 1-8, or even a 1-7 does.

My 1-9 shoots the 68/69 gr. stuff great, but 75's are a bit too much.

 

[JoshuaW]

Not to knock your Girlfriend, but how good of a shot is she? If shes a new shooter I think I'd rather giver her as much trigger time as I could. Let her get comfortable shooting while you work on the ammo issues. The rounds will be safe to shoot.

I would agree with that. I have an Edge in .223, and you can put Wolf through it and get consistent groups at 100 yards. If she is a newer shooter, the ammo isnt going to matter much at this point.

If she is more experienced, get all this sorted out. I have a set of .223 dies I havent gotten around to using, and I will be eagerly waiting your results.