Remington-Smoot

[Leadeye]

Picked up a later model Remington-Smoot pocket revolver today, really just needed a good cleaning to get it shooting as the chambers were full of gunk preventing ammo from going in.

Gun companies in the 19th century realized the value of personal sized guns and Sam Colt really gets things going with his 1849 revolver. Remington was better known for larger guns, but made important contributions to the pocket gun market with it's ubiquitous derringer and the Smoot revolver.

Made around the 1870s to 1880s in three model runs, it was never made in large numbers. This is a later model with the "saw" grip rather than "birdshead" and chambered in the less common later 38 CF cartridge. This is a heeled cartridge making it more of a challenge to make, but with a little patience and technique, the job gets done. More commonly chambered in the many rimfire sizes available in the 19th century, These cartridges are even more of a challenge to make, but it's possible.

Took the Smoot out for a trial even though it was cold and it fired off all 5. I'll spend more time with to check accuracy after it warms up a bit.

 

[Squid556]

Care to share your process for making that ammo?

 

[MrSmitty]

Is it a Smoot operator?, or is it a Smoot point?....ok, I'm done
Very nice, love those neat little guns.

 

[jwamplerusa]

@Leadeye

I love your writeups on these old guns. It's wonderful that you not only save them, but bring them back to life.

Have you ever written to Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) to offer up some of your collection for filming?

 

[Leadeye]

Care to share your process for making that ammo?

It's just BP cartridge ammo, I use the same technique. This gun was chambered in 38 centerfire which today translated to 38 Short Colt brass with a 125 grain heeled bullet. I use a soft lead alloy and SPG lube for this, and size to .375. Use magnum primers and 3F powder for best results. With 44 Colt and both 38 Short or Long Colt I have used the carbide ring in Lee Factory Crimp dies to improve chambering.

The early cartridge era was full of long gone cartridges and the tech behind them, runs from the late 1860s to the early 1900s. You just need to know your guns history, barrel and cylinder diameter. Here is the Smoot, from the 1880s and a Colt conversion from the 1870s, both take the same ammo.

The internet is full of good info about loading BP cartridges for about anything.

 

[Leadeye]

@Leadeye

I love your writeups on these old guns. It's wonderful that you not only save them, but bring them back to life.

Have you ever written to Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) to offer up some of your collection for filming?

Ian has access through the auction house to a lot of good stuff, most better than anything I have. I enjoy this work and like posting it so others can benefit from my experience if they have an old gun they want to get shooting again. Over the years I've been told shooting old guns is a bad idea, but I think most of the instances people base those opinions on come from using modern ammo.

 

[Squid556]

It's just BP cartridge ammo, I use the same technique. This gun was chambered in 38 centerfire which today translated to 38 Short Colt brass with a 125 grain heeled bullet. I use a soft lead alloy and SPG lube for this, and size to .375. Use magnum primers and 3F powder for best results. With 44 Colt and both 38 Short or Long Colt I have used the carbide ring in Lee Factory Crimp dies to improve chambering.

The early cartridge era was full of long gone cartridges and the tech behind them, runs from the late 1860s to the early 1900s. You just need to know your guns history, barrel and cylinder diameter. Here is the Smoot, from the 1880s and a Colt conversion from the 1870s, both take the same ammo.

The internet is full of good info about loading BP cartridges for about anything.

View attachment 327042

Is there anything different with seating / crimping a heeled bullet compared to traditional revolver cartridges?

 

[Leadeye]

Is there anything different with seating / crimping a heeled bullet compared to traditional revolver cartridges?

Seating and crimping are both different as you are dealing with a "shelf" that fixes the position of the bullet in the case. Special crimp dies are available for them and it's more of a squeeze than a crimp as there is no grove under the "shelf". That said, it's easy to pick up once you start.

When you pick a mold, take into account the measurement from the "shelf" to the top of the bullet as you can only adjust COAL by trimming the brass. Accurate Mold is where I get my molds from. He lists the numbers he has sold of each particular type so you get an idea what is working for most folks. Lube grooves are outside the case, so as a generality the bullets are going to have a longer COAL.

I have a post about 44 Colt where you can see the difference between a conventional and heeled cartridge.

 

[Squid556]

Seating and crimping are both different as you are dealing with a "shelf" that fixes the position of the bullet in the case. Special crimp dies are available for them and it's more of a squeeze than a crimp as there is no grove under the "shelf". That said, it's easy to pick up once you start.

When you pick a mold, take into account the measurement from the "shelf" to the top of the bullet as you can only adjust COAL by trimming the brass. Accurate Mold is where I get my molds from. He lists the numbers he has sold of each particular type so you get an idea what is working for most folks. Lube grooves are outside the case, so as a generality the bullets are going to have a longer COAL.

I have a post about 44 Colt where you can see the difference between a conventional and heeled cartridge.

Thanks , I learned something today

Known the difference just didnt know how it was done. For a brief and strange minute I looked into reloading 22 LR. But this solidifies some stuff.