Riley Appleseed After Action Report (AAR) April 25-26th.

[techres]

What a great weekend!

We started with just under 20 shooters ranging from 8 to grandpa (yes, that is an official age). The weather was great, and the orange hats on hand were well rested from a night of camping on the edge of the lake.

We ran our safety drills and got right to shooting. Levels of experience were as varied as calibers of the rifles. All the shooters came with a learning attitude and a visible sense of excitement.

The first target gave us a baseline for each shooter and showed that we had work to do but nothing extreme. We worked on finding our groups, learning the slings and positions, natural point of aim, and lastly sight adjustment. By that time, it was time for lunch.

Every shooter brought lunch and we enjoyed the cool of the clubhouse. After lunch we learned our first portion of history from Brokensling. Then back to the rifles.

Throughout the afternoon we worked on shrinking our groups, maintaining our rifles, and keeping hydrated ("if nothing's coming out, you haven't put enough in"). By the end of the day we had one Rifleman and many "knocking at the door". Two more times we recounted the stories of our forefathers and mothers and what they had to do at Lexington, Concord, and Meriam's Corner. Then we were done for the day.

The night's camping was again great (we remembered to gather wood in the daylight rather than in the dark) and Hawkhavn was able to join us. Some stayed up late, some snored by the campfire until nudged and told to go to bed.

The second day had us with fewer shooters, allowing us to have a higher shooter to student ratio and even put a few orange hats on the line to brush up on their skills (how many schools will let their trainers on the line?). Team games, new drills and more AQT's filled out the afternoon and before you knew it we had two more Riflemen scores! HootersBilly taught us about the "dangerous old men" who fought all over battle road and the amazing tales of bravery and skill that helped lead the younger fighters of the day.

By the end of the day everyone was tired, sore and shooting at several levels higher than the had the day before. The last string of the day ("tavern") was shooting on a red coat target and many were truly impressed by the difference between that one and the day before.

Particular sights that stuck out for me were:

The shooters with the centerfire bringing that beautiful "THUMP THUMP" music with them.

Seeing our 8 year old shooter take breaks to do cartwheels in between strings as a way to "destress".

Watching each trainer do the history sections in their own voice but retaining the complete history and heritage handed down to each of us.

And watching our shooters each wrestle and overcome their own personal issues. (Clay got to use an Israeli bandage to keep his elbow going after running a bit raw)

Take down screws wiggled free, scope mounts gave, slings were exchanged out, and quick cleanings had to happen all giving shooters a chance to learn their rifles and how to fix them.

In the end, the shooter who impressed me the most was JByer323's dad who came and had to work through issues with his hand and elbow that frankly dwarf what most shooters have to deal with. Instead of complaining or opting out of the event, he showed unusual persistence and willingness to try a variety of improvised positions until we found something that worked for his unique situation. And he did so with a sense of cheer and determination that is the core of what we teach.

I would like to thank, again, all of the shooters for coming and am sure that I will seeing you each again on the trail. And perhaps before long, some of you will have patches and some will have orange hats!

Techres

P.S. Brokensling took some pictures this weekend and when he has them processed, I will make sure some get posted in this thread.

 

[shooter521]

Totally rockin.

I'm really looking forward to bringing my wife (and son, when he is of age) out to one of these events.

The rest of the parts for my 10/22 rebuild will be in this week. Are "Liberty Training Rifles" allowed to have red dots and silencers?

 

[techres]

Totally rockin.

I'm really looking forward to bringing my wife (and son, when he is of age) out to one of these events.

The rest of the parts for my 10/22 rebuild will be in this week. Are "Liberty Training Rifles" allowed to have red dots and silencers?

Our motto is: "We run what you brung."

Red dots are fine, scopes (4x or less is preferred), Acog, Trijicom, apeture, leaf, or peice of metal duck taped to the barrel (yes, we have been there). Does not matter to us. The only down side to a red dot is if the dot is 5 MOA it will completely obscure the 4 MOA squares.

Suppressors are fine too and are not uncommon. The only thing we ask is that it not be so dirty that it gives you feed or extraction issues.

Oh, and whatever you bring needs to be able to mount a sling to (FYI: web GI is best, Two point will work, but single point is not applicable to what we do).

BTW, there is a running bit of commentary as to whether a pistol caliber rifle/carbine is accurate enough to qualify for rifleman if the shooter is otherwise good enough. I hope Indiana teaches the rest of the country what a 9mm AR is capable of some day! (mag length would be a bit of a challenge in prone though).

Do you know what event you are planning on going to?

 

[shooter521]

Do you know what event you are planning on going to?

No; it's pretty much just a pipe dream at this point. Probably won't get serious about it until next year for me and Lori, and a couple years after that for Calvin.

 

[techres]

No; it's pretty much just a pipe dream at this point. Probably won't get serious about it until next year for me and Lori, and a couple years after that for Calvin.

Appleseed's pipe dream is to have child care at events for those kids too small to be shooting.

 

[Clay]

Ok, where to begin, first I would like to say thanks to all the instructors: Hawkhavn, Techres (Josh), BrokenSling (Bill), HootersBilly (Bill), DaveD, and Amanda. These ‘guys’ made the entire experience enjoyable, and they are all great teachers!

I arrived about 7:45 on Saturday morning for the first day of the Appleseed with 400 rounds of CCI mini-mag and my LTR. A 10+ year old stainless steel Ruger 10-22 w/ tech sights, an extended mag release, tuffer buffer, 1” Promag recoil pad, and a GI web sling. Everyone met at the clubhouse where we checked in and then went over the 4 safety rules (What is rule #2?) One thing these guys do a great job of is making sure everyone is safe, no ifs, ands, or butts about it. Very professional in this regard and for good reason!

After going over the rules and getting our equipment to the line, we began the day shooting 1” squares and a red coat target. No real instruction initially, just trying to find out where everyone was. I was positioned toward the right end, right next to a gentleman shooting an M1A. WOW, talk about shock wave!!! We worked on reading groups, finding NPOA, how to use slings, and sight adjustment. These things alone make this an awesome program!

Now, on top of the actual hands on rifle training, there is one part of this *experience* that puts it over the top, and that is the history! These guys are great story tellers! Everyone would gather around a (preferably) shady spot on the grounds and one of the instructors would tell a portion of the history around April 19, 1775 and the start of the Revolutionary War. There was a lot of great stuff here that has really turned me onto the history of that time. I might even have to go check out a book or two.

At the end of day 1 we shot at our redcoat target again (wow what a difference a day makes!) and had our first AQT, which I am VERY proud to say I scored a 219 on, achieving my Rifleman status. I’m still surprised I did it, and I’m still very proud to have the patch. Right now it sits in my wallet until I figure out where I want to put it more permanently. The funny thing about my first AQT is there were two holes missing on the 2nd stage (transition to sitting)…. I’m still trying to convince the guys that those two holes are inside two other holes J So needless to say, day one was pretty extraordinary for me!

Day two started off a bit later at 9AM. We started right off the bat with some more 1” square targets to check the sights. Thank goodness we did because I completely disassembled my LTR after day 1 for a good cleaning and my sights were off a bit. In the middle of all this fun I found out I had pretty much rubbed a very large patch of skin off my left elbow ( https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._elbow_pads_to_your_appleseed.html#post361936 ), so Techres and Hawkhavn had to put together a temporary patch and an elbow pad to get me through to lunch where JByer323 helped me apply an Israeli bandage. After that there were more AQTs, some games, and some more history. I managed to back my 219 up with a 225, and then some 206s and 207s thrown in for good measure, followed up with one final Rifleman score of 210. This was pretty much a validation for me that the 219 wasn’t a complete fluke, and that made me feel pretty darn good!

This was my first ever training of any kind shooting a firearm, ever, and this experience was a GREAT one. Ill admit that I was very tired after both days. These are full days of training with out much fluff thrown in. Shoot, eat, talk a bit, shoot more, hydrate, and shoot more! The instruction was great, facilities were great, weather was great, and the PEOPLE were great! It was nice to be together with a group of like minded individuals and have a good day ‘at the range’.

I have come away with a few recommendations from my experience, so Ill post them up here as well.

1. Midway shooting mat. I was lucky enough to borrow a Midway shooting mat on Saturday, and I’m glad it was there for me to use! (Thanks IUgradstudent!!). So if you have the opportunity to buy them on sale like they were a couple months back, don’t be stupid like me and pass on it. They are worth it. One suggestion with these, bring something to cover up the black rubber pads on the mat. They do get pretty darn toasty in the heat of the day!

2. Elbow pads. ( https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._elbow_pads_to_your_appleseed.html#post361936 ). Nuff said.

3. Buy Israeli bandages here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...bandage_group_buy_back_by_popular_demand.html and keep them in your range bag! You never know when you may need a temporary bandage/elbow pad!!!!!!!!!

4. Ammo, all the same kind and bring more than you think you will need. I shot up 450 rounds of ammo and probably only missed 5 rounds while getting my elbow bandaged. 400 rounds of CCI mini-mag and 50 rounds of CCI stinger. We were getting a lot of shooting in, and I ran out of the mini-mag and had to switch to the stingers when I ran out……… needless to say those last 50 rounds where hitting different on the paper than the mini-mag.

5. Water. Bring lots of it. Drink lots of it. Evacuate lots of it. It was 80+ degrees both days, I drank LOTS of water.

6. Folding chair. There isn't a lot of down time, but its nice to have a chair when you can.

7. For taller shooters a 1” recoil pad for the 10-22 is a must, well, for me anyway. I would have been right on top of the rear sight in a couple positions if I didn’t have a recoil pad.

8. Tech sights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If your going to take a 10-22, don’t forget the tech sights, they are worth the cost!!!!!!!!

9. 10-22. Now, this is just MY opinion, but for your first Appleseed (yes, I say first because after you go to one, you will want to go again!), I would recommend a 10-22. They make it easy to get down the basics, similar sight picture (with tech sights), and easier on the wallet (both rifle and ammo). Now if you must shoot your AR (or what ever), shoot it some on Sunday after you have a lot of the basics down. I brought my AR but was having loads of fun shooting the 10-22, so I stuck with it. I’m not sure I could have pulled a rifleman score my first try running an AR.

10. Leave the 25 round banana mags for your 10-22 at home. 2 stock 10 rounders will get you by the entire weekend. Of course have a spare!

11. If you’re running an AR, bring 10 or 20 round mags and leave the 30s at home. I think the guys down the row from me on Day 1 were having issues getting exactly where they wanted with their ARs and 30 round mags.

12. Dark tinted shooting glasses. I had two pairs of safety glasses I use at work. One with a clear lens and one with a dark lens. The dark lens proved very valuable for me when the sun was high in the sky. Really takes away the eye strain.

13. GO. If you have not had the opportunity to get to an Appleseed event, go. Make the time, find the time, beg, borrow, etc to get the opportunity to go to one. It’s an experience you will not forget, you will have a GREAT time, and you will learn something!

14. Go AGAIN!

 

[MattCFII]

Sounds like a lot of fun and learning. One main thing I haven't been able to find is qualification standards. What MOA do you need to shoot to qualify as a rifleman? Do you have to qualify with a centerfire or can you qualify with a rimfire?

 

[ATM]

...What MOA do you need to shoot to qualify as a rifleman? Do you have to qualify with a centerfire or can you qualify with a rimfire?

4 moa is the standard. Yes, you may qualify with rimfire.

 

[bigus_D]

I just wanted to thank everybody involved with the Appleseed program for putting on a great event. This was my first Appleseed and I very much enjoyed it. The instruction was great and I really saw my groups shrink (finally qualifying with a 210 on the nose, though the instructors pulled out the "50 cal rule" to get me there... so I'll have to go to another and shoot riffleman free and clear next time).

My main concern going into the weekend was that there would be a bunch of politics spewed about during the training. I've attended a couple of other courses where this happened, and I simply don't have any interest in listening to that. The history portion of the Appleseed program was just that, "history." Not politics. Not left vs. right. History. And it wasn't like going to school and listening to a teacher go on and on all day. The history was injected during the breaks (and honestly don't think we could have done more shooting without passing out).

Anyhow, I recommend it to anyone who is on the fence. Go out, learn something, enjoy yourself, shoot better.

Thanks again to the orange and red hats.

 

[IUGradStudent]

I also would like to thank all of the Appleseed instructors for running a great program. Clay's review is much better than any I could do. The program did an extremely good job with safety. The marksmanship training was very good--I learned a ton and went home with a lot to practice. My score wasn't anywhere near 210, though with practice I am sure it will be.

Everyone I met was friendly, people were loaning cartridges, slings, shooting mats and other gear to each other. A great time was had by all. I would heartily recommend this program to anyone seeking to develop their rifle marksmanship skills. It was family-friendly, non-political (not too much, anyway), with a nice inclusion of American history. I will be recommending this program to friends and family around the country and hope to be back at another Appleseed shoot soon.

 

[WRWIII]

 

[techres]

Thanks for the pics! I do believe I see some INGO people in that crowd...

 

[DaveD]

Great Photo's!! Thank you

 

[JByer323]

Sorry this has taken a couple days to get all posted up, but better late then never I guess. To start off, I want to say a huge thank you to our instructors that we had. You were all excellent; patient, knowledgeable, passionate, and fun. It was hard not to be moved in some way as you told us stories of the three strikes. Again, thank you.

This is my first firearms training of any sort I have ever been to. That being said, my father and I arrived at around 8:30, after a drive down from Noblesville, that I'm not too proud to say I slept through (working until 11:30 the night before was rough). I brought along a 10/22 carbine, outfitted in the LTR way with Tech Sight 2000s (amazing), a VQ extractor (had two malfunctions all weekend, running bulk Federal ammo), GI web sling from CTD, buffer, new extended Ruger mag release, and five Ruger 10 round mags. That was a mouthful. After talking to Ed and Josh some, my dad made the decision to just use a loaner LTR, which turned out to be a blessing.

After shooting the **** for a few minutes, we registered, and shortly thereafter introductions (and a big INGO plug) occurred, and we discussed safety rules. The whole weekend the line was very safe, which I think is a testament to the quality of the instructors and the participants themselves.

We shot a redcoat and sighter targer, without any real instruction to start out, as a way to see where people stood. I didn't get a chance to sight in the Tech Sights after installation since I had a few issues with them, but after the first or second sighter target, we went over sight adjustment (MOA! CLICKS! I GET IT! HURRAH!) and got me on target.

We spent the rest of the day learning proper positions, learning to call shots and use groups to help diagnose mistakes, shooting AQTs, Redcoats, and sighter targets. It was intense.

We would periodically take breaks, and one of the instructors would tell us part of the story of April 19, 1775, and the significance it had for the Revolutionary War, and America as a whole. This part was amazing, and my dad and I ordered Paul Revere's Ride last night.

At the end of the first day we again shot the first Redcoat target, and the difference was pronounced to say the least.

We next day was mainly ripping through AQTs, with some very interesting drills (NPOA, eyes closed, what?) that really helped to get a better grasp of the skills we were learning.

My father was having problems all weekend, and the instructors were fantastic working with him, especially Josh, Billy, and Ed. He broke his left arm and elbow 15 years or so ago, and his wrist won't rotate, which makes it harder for him. As much as he hates to admit it, he's getting older too, and on Sunday Josh convinced him to try a scoped LTR, which was a big improvement. Every time he would get frustrated or discouraged, there would be an instructor there willing to pass on some wisdom, tips, or just plain kind words, and on the last target of Sunday (another Redcoat), his improvements were really obvious. He wants to come to another as much as I do, and we may end up dragging my mom along too, which means that Josh is more then welcome to eat with us again.

So to sum it all up? I didn't earn my Rifleman this time around, but I'm bound and determined to continue parcticing the skills I learned, and I'm going to go to at least one, hopefully three more shoots this year. Top notch instruction, a great vision behind the program, and a very important historical aspect to it background.

So tips?

1. Have a shooting mat. The Midway USA ones rock, and you can pick them up on sale for $25.
2. Have good quality shooting glasses, a perfect world would be a yellow pair and a tinted pair.
3. Have put at least a couple bricks of ammo through your rifle (if it's a .22) to see what it likes to east. I ripped through a Federal bulk pack before coming, and didn't have any issues with it all weekend. Bring enough ammo, and make sure it's the same stuff.
4. Tech sights rock. The 2000s rock harder. Have a sight tool.
5. I brought 5 ten roung Ruger mags. A sixth would have been nice to have, so you could load an entire AQT test before hand.
6. My dad and I forgot chairs. They would have been nice.
7. Water! Sunday, we went through six Nalgenes, and 1.5 gal on top of that. I brought some tablets called Nuun, which are like Gatoraid, but without the sugar content and the grossness. They rock, and helped.

It was the coolest feeling to be shooting a string of shots, and to feel it all click together. It was what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity.

Yeah, I'll be back.

 

[csaws]

Appleseed's pipe dream is to have child care at events for those kids too small to be shooting.

Yeah this would be great, that is one reason we will be at Riley in July. Father in law lives in Cory.

 

[Clay]

Great pics! thanks!

Wouldn't you know it, I went to the midway site to check on those shooting mats........ and the darn things are on sale again! Wish they were on sale last week when I ordered my range bag!

MidwayUSA - MidwayUSA Competition Shooting Mat PVC Coated Polyester Khaki

 

[csaws]

Sorry this has taken a couple days to get all posted up, but better late then never I guess. To start off, I want to say a huge thank you to our instructors that we had. You were all excellent; patient, knowledgeable, passionate, and fun. It was hard not to be moved in some way as you told us stories of the three strikes. Again, thank you.

This is my first firearms training of any sort I have ever been to. That being said, my father and I arrived at around 8:30, after a drive down from Noblesville, that I'm not too proud to say I slept through (working until 11:30 the night before was rough). I brought along a 10/22 carbine, outfitted in the LTR way with Tech Sight 2000s (amazing), a VQ extractor (had two malfunctions all weekend, running bulk Federal ammo), GI web sling from CTD, buffer, new extended Ruger mag release, and five Ruger 10 round mags. That was a mouthful. After talking to Ed and Josh some, my dad made the decision to just use a loaner LTR, which turned out to be a blessing.

After shooting the **** for a few minutes, we registered, and shortly thereafter introductions (and a big INGO plug) occurred, and we discussed safety rules. The whole weekend the line was very safe, which I think is a testament to the quality of the instructors and the participants themselves.

We shot a redcoat and sighter targer, without any real instruction to start out, as a way to see where people stood. I didn't get a chance to sight in the Tech Sights after installation since I had a few issues with them, but after the first or second sighter target, we went over sight adjustment (MOA! CLICKS! I GET IT! HURRAH!) and got me on target.

We spent the rest of the day learning proper positions, learning to call shots and use groups to help diagnose mistakes, shooting AQTs, Redcoats, and sighter targets. It was intense.

We would periodically take breaks, and one of the instructors would tell us part of the story of April 19, 1775, and the significance it had for the Revolutionary War, and America as a whole. This part was amazing, and my dad and I ordered Paul Revere's Ride last night.

At the end of the first day we again shot the first Redcoat target, and the difference was pronounced to say the least.

We next day was mainly ripping through AQTs, with some very interesting drills (NPOA, eyes closed, what?) that really helped to get a better grasp of the skills we were learning.

My father was having problems all weekend, and the instructors were fantastic working with him, especially Josh, Billy, and Ed. He broke his left arm and elbow 15 years or so ago, and his wrist won't rotate, which makes it harder for him. As much as he hates to admit it, he's getting older too, and on Sunday Josh convinced him to try a scoped LTR, which was a big improvement. Every time he would get frustrated or discouraged, there would be an instructor there willing to pass on some wisdom, tips, or just plain kind words, and on the last target of Sunday (another Redcoat), his improvements were really obvious. He wants to come to another as much as I do, and we may end up dragging my mom along too, which means that Josh is more then welcome to eat with us again.

So to sum it all up? I didn't earn my Rifleman this time around, but I'm bound and determined to continue parcticing the skills I learned, and I'm going to go to at least one, hopefully three more shoots this year. Top notch instruction, a great vision behind the program, and a very important historical aspect to it background.

So tips?

1. Have a shooting mat. The Midway USA ones rock, and you can pick them up on sale for $25.
2. Have good quality shooting glasses, a perfect world would be a yellow pair and a tinted pair.
3. Have put at least a couple bricks of ammo through your rifle (if it's a .22) to see what it likes to east. I ripped through a Federal bulk pack before coming, and didn't have any issues with it all weekend. Bring enough ammo, and make sure it's the same stuff.
4. Tech sights rock. The 2000s rock harder. Have a sight tool.
5. I brought 5 ten roung Ruger mags. A sixth would have been nice to have, so you could load an entire AQT test before hand.
6. My dad and I forgot chairs. They would have been nice.
7. Water! Sunday, we went through six Nalgenes, and 1.5 gal on top of that. I brought some tablets called Nuun, which are like Gatoraid, but without the sugar content and the grossness. They rock, and helped.

It was the coolest feeling to be shooting a string of shots, and to feel it all click together. It was what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity.

Yeah, I'll be back.

Is this what you ordered?

Paul Revere's Ride By David Hackett Fischer

 

[JByer323]

Sure is.