Rule question

[Bflo]

On Sunday 11/25/12 during the early afternoon, a “range officer” that I have never seen before brought up a rule that I had never heard of and couldn’t find in the rule book.

I had my unloaded shotgun secured in its case (with its action open) on the bench behind the shooters. I also had my range bag on that bench. The other members whom I was shooting with also had their range bags in this position.

The RO asked me to move my cased gun to the firing line. I obliged. He then proceeded to ask me about my range bag. I explained that there were no guns in the range bag, just ammo and magazines that I wasn’t using at the time, along with other range bag items. He then asked, “will you be putting your guns in the bag when you pack up to go home?” I answered in the affirmative, as I tend to use my range bag for this function. The RO had me bring my range bag to the firing line. I have never heard of this rule before and I could not find it in the rule book. My understanding was that uncased guns and mags/ammo belonged on the firing line and that range bags could be stored on the bench behind the shooters. The RO repeatedly stated, “I don’t make the rules, I just enforce them.” Can someone please point me to where in the rule book it says that range bags must be stored on the firing line?

Also, is there someone from MCF&G that I can PM as I have some other issues I would like to address privately?


Thanks!

 

[rockhopper46038]

Hell, I didn't know we had an "RO's" patrolling the firing line when no scheduled events were taking place. I've also never heard of that "rule". I will go and check my rulebook quickly and see if I can find something.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I don't see any rule that you violated. 5.20 and 5.21 (with subsections) are the pertinent sections. It is a big stretch, but perhaps this "RO" thought you were in violation of 6.4.2.3.3 "Allowing an uncased firearm to point at a person"? Like perhaps if someone farther down the line was messing around in their bags also on the back benches and the muzzle of your unloaded, action open, and uncased shotgun was covering them when they were doing so?

 

[jlin]

I'm also interested in the answer to this question. The shooter's bench was crowded with unnecessary items due to this previously unheard of rule. The need to have range bags, cased/secured firearms, as well as empty pistol/rifle cases on the firing line mystifies me. I'd think that a less cluttered workspace would be safer.

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Well we have a "RO" whether self appointed or officially appointed and he is making life miserable at the club. I for one am stronly considering changing clubs because of this person. I witnessed an altercation come nearly to blows over a nit picking issue that said range officer would not let go.

 

[Bflo]

I don't see any rule that you violated. 5.20 and 5.21 (with subsections) are the pertinent sections. It is a big stretch, but perhaps this "RO" thought you were in violation of 6.4.2.3.3 "Allowing an uncased firearm to point at a person"? Like perhaps if someone farther down the line was messing around in their bags also on the back benches and the muzzle of your unloaded, action open, and uncased shotgun was covering them when they were doing so?

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

Once we all moved our gear to the firing line, it was very cluttered and potentially more unsafe given that it was more difficult to keep track of our weapons.

 

[singlesix]

our board meeting is the first Tuesday of the month.

 

[DONB]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

Once we all moved our gear to the firing line, it was very cluttered and potentially more unsafe given that it was more difficult to keep track of our weapons.

As long as you was not taking a uncased gun from the back bench to the firing line you are good to go.when done shooting bring your bag to the firing line and put your gun in it.a gun can be on the back bench as long as the bag is closed,or zipped closed.

Bags can be on the back bench.

 

[chizzle]

Hi guys,
Thanks for your feedback about your shooting experience at MCFG. My name is Chuck and I'm the President at MCFG through January 1. I would really like to ask you to attend an upcoming Board meeting, so that we can figure out the best way to move forward. I'm not on INGO often, so if you need to get a hold of me please email me through the IndyRange.org website or look me up at an upcoming Board meeting.

I am not making excuses for anyone, but here are some facts to ponder just so that we're all starting with the same info:

1) We have approximately 20 safety officers appointed by the Board that volunteer their time to help keep our range safe. They typically wear their bright yellow hats or vests.
2) The club rules get updated occasionally at Board meetings, so paper copies may be out of date. The most up to date copy is typically on the website. We do our best to keep folks updated, but admittedly it is a very a difficult task with an all volunteer Board. We are currently working on having new rule books printed.
3) We had some requests to help shooters minimize the chance of sweeping people with their muzzles, and some requests to eliminate the rear bench so that folks would only put their guns on the front bench.

As a range we're always working towards greater safety and a better member experience. While we can't please everybody, we work with our members as hard as possible to make the range better for everybody. Please attend an upcoming Board meeting and work with us to make the range better.
Sincerely,
Chuck

 

[Bflo]

Thank you for your response. My work schedule prohibits me from attending a Board meeting. I will send you an email.

Hi guys,
Thanks for your feedback about your shooting experience at MCFG. My name is Chuck and I'm the President at MCFG through January 1. I would really like to ask you to attend an upcoming Board meeting, so that we can figure out the best way to move forward. I'm not on INGO often, so if you need to get a hold of me please email me through the IndyRange.org website or look me up at an upcoming Board meeting.

I am not making excuses for anyone, but here are some facts to ponder just so that we're all starting with the same info:

1) We have approximately 20 safety officers appointed by the Board that volunteer their time to help keep our range safe. They typically wear their bright yellow hats or vests.
2) The club rules get updated occasionally at Board meetings, so paper copies may be out of date. The most up to date copy is typically on the website. We do our best to keep folks updated, but admittedly it is a very a difficult task with an all volunteer Board. We are currently working on having new rule books printed.
3) We had some requests to help shooters minimize the chance of sweeping people with their muzzles, and some requests to eliminate the rear bench so that folks would only put their guns on the front bench.

As a range we're always working towards greater safety and a better member experience. While we can't please everybody, we work with our members as hard as possible to make the range better for everybody. Please attend an upcoming Board meeting and work with us to make the range better.
Sincerely,
Chuck

 

[chizzle]

Thank you for your response. My work schedule prohibits me from attending a Board meeting. I will send you an email.

Email received. Thank you for the constructive criticism. We will handle this at the Board meeting in December. If your schedule changes and you are able to attend, we would welcome your presence.

 

[WebSnyper]

Hi guys,

3) We had some requests to help shooters minimize the chance of sweeping people with their muzzles, and some requests to eliminate the rear bench so that folks would only put their guns on the front bench.

Chuck, so just curious, is there now such a rule or not?

It seems like following the existing rules would keep folks from sweeping people with muzzles without needing to have cases placed on the forward bench at all times. Seems simple, just take the case to the line when ready to case the firearm.

 

[chizzle]

Chuck, so just curious, is there now such a rule or not?

It seems like following the existing rules would keep folks from sweeping people with muzzles without needing to have cases placed on the forward bench at all times. Seems simple, just take the case to the line when ready to case the firearm.

The rules are being revised and finalized over the next few days, and we hope to have new books to hand out at the next meeting. We've had some rule changes over the past year that haven't been incorporated into the printed copy as well as we should have, thus resulting in confusion.

We have talked at length about the back bench / front bench issue during several of the recent Board meetings. In an effort to minimize the chance of "sweeping" someone with your muzzle, several of the Safety Officers have been recommending keeping guns only on the front bench. Overall, these recommendations come from the SO's not wanting to have to get somebody suspended over an rules infraction. Unfortunately, this effort to help has sometimes come across as meddling in other peoples' business. I talked to one SO today that said he regretted giving so much "advice" (which people often interpreted as meddling) and wished he had written up more Safety Concern Forms so that these issues would have been brought in front of the Board sooner.

Overall, we've got good people who are trying to make our range safer, and who don't want to have members suspended more than necessary. Unfortunately, in their attempt to help, I think it created an adversarial environment. Moving forward, I believe the plan will be to hand out a Safety Concern Form every time, so that the burden falls to the club member and the Board to straighten out at the next Board meeting.

 

[Simon6101]

Question then

So what happens if I get a Safety Concern form and can't attend the Board Meeting to defend myself?

 

[chizzle]

MCFG Members,
I just created a Poll regarding this issue, and I would appreciate it if you would take the time to vote. My goal here is to get the general feel for how well people like our SO program, and to get some usable suggestions on what we can do to make it better.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lp_me_improve_our_safety_officer_program.html

Sincerely,
Chuck