Shooting problems. Any ideas.

[rjc2rjc]

OK, here is the deal. I have been shooting the league shoot at BGF since it started. While i have gotten better over the weeks i cant seem to get my grouping to tighten up. The Glock 23 is the biggest problem. I get better groupings during the rapid fire rounds than I do when i have the time to really hold it on the target. This week I had 3 shots completely miss the paper on slow fire but all 10 hit during the 2 rapid fire.

My good friend that shoots with me seems to think its all in my head. He is a pretty good shot and i take his advise on several different things when it comes to shooting and what not.

I just don't see how if I'm sitting there holding dead on during slow fire, squeeze the trigger and watch it miss the target how that is in my head. is it my technique? I'm using the tip if my finger to pull trigger and have been working on letting the trigger go forward only enough to reset itself.
Its driving me nuts.

 

[rhino]

I just don't see how if I'm sitting there holding dead on during slow fire, squeeze the trigger and watch it miss the target how that is in my head. is it my technique? I'm using the tip if my finger to pull trigger and have been working on letting the trigger go forward only enough to reset itself.
Its driving me nuts.

If you're watching it miss, then you're looking at the target. You should have your visual focus on the top edge of your front sight.

 

[rjc2rjc]

When i say watching it miss i mean there is no hole in the target after i shoot and look to see where it went.

 

[rjc2rjc]

I watch the front site and try to keep it level and in line with the rear sites. After I get that done thats when I put it on target.

 

[Rob377]

Using the tip of the finger on a glock....lemme guess, you're missing to the weak hand side? (left if you're righty)

The other thing that's possible is pre-ignition push, aka flinching. Depending on what you consider 'rapid' fire, it's possible you're not anticipating the shot while doing it and why the groups are better. Slow fire give you more time to anticipate and push shot down and left (again assuming right handed)

You didn't say where you're missing, or include any video or anything, so most suggestions based on the little information given here are going to be shots in the dark to be taken with a few grains of salt.

 

[rhino]

When i say watching it miss i mean there is no hole in the target after i shoot and look to see where it went.

Lots of reasons why you could be missing and it could be more than one. It would be difficult to diagnose and fix without watching you shoot.

Ultimately you have to get a good sight picture and while maintaining that sight picture, press the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until the bullet has exited the barrel. Sometimes that's easier said than done. Sometimes a technique change will help.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Shots seem to go high and left or low and left. Some shots just go all over the place but biggest part of them are as said.

 

[Rob377]

Do some dry fire at home against a white wall. You don't need a target. When dryfiring, experiment with some different finger positions on the trigger. The goal is to break the shot without disturbing the sights AT ALL. Not one iota of movement. Don't kid yourself on this drill. NO MOVEMENT.

I suspect you'll have better results using the meaty part of the pad of the finger instead of the tip.

 

[Twangbanger]

Rjc, I'll send you a PM. Hard to say, but it sounds like recoil anticipation. You've definitely got the better problem to have, though. Most people are the opposite!

 

[rvb]

The solution is the easiest thing in the world. You have to 1) discover a grip and trigger finger position that allows you to break the shot w/o disturbing the sights and 2) keep the sights aligned throughout the firing process, until the bullet has left the barrel.

actually doing that is the hard part.

Some good suggestions above.

You have to SEE. What do you SEE the sights do when you dryfire?

Once you start to see improvement/consistency in your dryfire, try the dime trick... balance a dime on top of the front site, then pull the trigger, without causing the dime to fall. Then, when you can do it, try to see how many in a row you can do it... 5 times? 10 times? 50 times?

SEEING is critical if your problem is a flinch. You HAVE to "look the shot off" (keep the sights aligned until the front sight lifts in recoil). If you are not seeing it lift, then you are probably flinching.

Are you familiar with "shot calling?" that is the ability to know where the bullet went based on the alignment of the sights at the time the sights lift in recoil. You can score your hits w/o looking at the targets by shot calling. experiment with scoring based on your sight picture. Since a "flinch" is usually accompanied with closing the eyes, you can help avoid a flinch by calling the shot.

Also, don't fight the recoil. Let it recoil. Flinches also come from the desire to stop the recoil, or fear of recoil. Don't take too long to break the shot. If you take all day to break the shot, building anticipation, you're more likely to flinch as you get close to breaking the shot. If you're currently shooting better shooting fast, then do that; dont use all the time given in the slow fire strings if it doesn't help you.

Once you get passed the flinching, and start to produce consistent groups, then look to mechanical improvements (sights, lighter triggers, etc).

as said above, it's hard to diagnose via internet. Hopefully that input helps or at least gives you ideas to consider.

-rvb

ps. a trick I have done that has helped some students cure a bad flinch... first use both plugs and muffs. take aim at the target, then completely close your eyes. fire the shot, let the gun recoil, and focus only on how the gun feels in your hands. notice how little it really moves, how little it moves you, how little it hurt. Get comfortable with the recoil. removing the visual and audible inputs as much as possible helps realize there's nothing significant to flinch from or to have to control. Then go back to aiming, trying to call the shot as best as possible.

 

[netsecurity]

As mentioned above, grip and trigger are the key. Dry firing (*safely*) is more important in finding the proper grip than live firing, since you can't tell if you are pulling/twitching when recoil is involved.