The car I want, a monograph I wrote

[shibumiseeker]

No, it's not some bling laden chick-magnet. It's a reconfiguration of how I think about a vehicle.

First off, I want an electric drivetrain. I want motors in each wheel computer controlled to optimize traction and regenerative braking. This saves weight and cost in drivetrain components. I want the system to be able to run with one or more motors off-line.

Next, I want modular battery packs. I want them small enough to be one-person swappable.

I want them to go into bays that can accept whatever new battery technology comes about, and inexpensive enough that instead of having to replace one big battery in 8-10 years, I can buy a new smaller one every 2-3 years and rotate out older ones. Each car has several bays. Bigger vehicles have more bays.

I want auxiliary power units that can power the system as well, and I want these APUs to fit into the modular bays that the batteries go into. These APUs will be capable of extending the range of the vehicle. They could be small, efficient gasoline generators, Fuel Cells, whatever. They can be ganged together to not just extend the range or charge the batteries, but power the vehicle as well. For example, I currently have a Honda EU2000i generator. If I were going on a longer trip, I could have several of them ganged together (not the Honda itself, but an APU of similar size, weight, and cost). When at home, my APUs could act as power for the house in the event of power failure.

I want modular solar panels that can be incorporated into the roof and flat surfaces of the vehicles, but that can be added to or replaced easily. Yeah, it's not a lot of power, but when your car is sitting in the parking lot all day, even a few extra miles of range "free" is nice, and modular so when I buy a new vehicle, I don't have to buy everything, batteries, APUs, solar panels, etc.

I want all of my current vehicles to be able to use the SAME batteries/APUs/solar panels.

If my driving will only be a few miles, I need fewer batteries/APUs, but when I am going to go on a longer trip or my commute is longer, I can add more in. I can pull up to a charging station and swap out the batteries and not only pay for the power I get, but have the charge pro-rated against the relative age/condition of the battery packs. Like we now have with 20lb propane cylinders, you can buy your own and have it filled, or you can swap them out for a little more cost with filled ones.

None of this requires new technology, or even a major change in infrastructure. It can make our personal transportation system flexible to utilize new technologies since the APUs can utilize existing fuel infrastructures and folks can have APUs that use all forms of new and existing fuels. It can make replacing vehicles cheaper since not everything has to be replaced at once. It can also make buying a new vehicle for the first time for younger folks cheaper since mom and dad can give an older vehicle, grandma and grandpa can donate a couple batteries/APUs/solar panels, etc.

Why don't we have this now? Why can't we have this now? Any venture capitalists want to invest a few million into helping me make this happen? I'm not some pipe-dream pie in the sky type, I have enough engineering and experience with alternative energy systems that I have a pretty good idea of what it would actually take to make this possible.

 

[cbseniour]

WE don't have it because the car companies build what they can sell.
Government encourages what it wants us to buy through tax breaks and subsidies. The last thing government wants is for us to be more independent.
The car you want will be built when enough of the buying public want the same thing and are willing to spend the money not until.

 

[snapping turtle]

I just wanted a jeep pickup truck with the inline turbo desiel. Ever since I saw it at the car show as a prototype, No luck. Good luck to you as they don't seem to listen to us.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I just wanted a jeep pickup truck with the inline turbo desiel. Ever since I saw it at the car show as a prototype, No luck. Good luck to you as they don't seem to listen to us.

Yeah. I was part of a solar car design team for one of the competitions when I was younger. I could build the car I want right now but it would cost a hundred grand as a one-off specialty car. There's no reason that mass-produced, this car couldn't sell for under $10k as a base model, and upwards for bigger cars/trucks.

 

[eldirector]

You and me both, man!

Last I checked, batteries are the holdup. Anything that can generate enough current is heavy and huge. Anything that is light and efficient is way too weak.

There was an article a while back on "ultra-capacitors" or some such. Something that can store a HUGE amounts of power and release it in a hurry. Still incredibly expensive, though.

If you want this right now, just go buy a Tesla. I think they meet 80% of your wish list, especially if you add the little generator-on-a-trailer for extended range. They only lack the modular components.

Tesla Motors | Premium Electric Vehicles

 

[eldirector]

I just wanted a jeep pickup truck with the inline turbo desiel. Ever since I saw it at the car show as a prototype, No luck. Good luck to you as they don't seem to listen to us.

I'd settle for a diesel/electric hybrid. Good enough for locomotives, good enough for me!

 

[shibumiseeker]

You and me both, man!

Last I checked, batteries are the holdup. Anything that can generate enough current is heavy and huge. Anything that is light and efficient is way too weak.

There was an article a while back on "ultra-capacitors" or some such. Something that can store a HUGE amounts of power and release it in a hurry. Still incredibly expensive, though.

If you want this right now, just go buy a Tesla. I think they meet 80% of your wish list, especially if you add the little generator-on-a-trailer for extended range. They only lack the modular components.

Tesla Motors | Premium Electric Vehicles

The Tesla doesn't even come close.

Batteries are not the hold-up. That's the point of modular bays. If you look at the battery systems the hybrids are using right now, there's no reason they can't be broken up into smaller units capable of being loaded into bays.

But it's not just about batteries, it's about the whole way we think about vehicles. It's the "replace the entire vehicle" when it's time for a new one. Yet many of the expensive parts are still just fine. But it's a lot of work to try to salvage them, so we just scrap the whole thing.

An electric wheel/motor assembly could be taken off a vehicle as simply as unplugging a plug and unbolting the wheel, and put on a new one.

Most people right now don't drive a vehicle into the ground, they replace the entire vehicle mostly when it is not cosmetically aesthetic anymore.

And I want the parts that are still good on one vehicle to be able to be easily used on the next vehicle, regardless of who manufactures it. That's only a legal issue as the major companies will battle to see whose "standard" will reign supreme.

 

[eldirector]

Ah, I see. You want standardized sub-assemblies across manufacturers AND across multiple generations of vehicles. Good luck with that!

The industry that is all about standards, compatibility, and upgrades - the IT industry - can't even get it right. The pace of change is just too fast. Every time a standard is ratified and adopted, the technology advances and new standards are needed.

That would be slick, though. Rather than tossing a perfectly good body and frame when the driveline wears out, you could just re-power and keep going.

The biggest change would be with the consumer, I'm afraid. While some of us don't mind driving older cars, most folks are simply willing to pay for something new and shiny. As long as there is a market for full-on replacement, manufacturers will meet the demand.

I'd still argue that batteries are a major roadblock to full electric cars. The Volt can go what, 40 miles, before the engine kicks in? Pull the engine and replace that with the same weight in batteries, and it could go maybe 80 miles? You can't even get out of the state with that. Even if I could swap packs, I'd have to stop and swap twice to get from Indy to Louisville!

 

[shibumiseeker]

Ah, I see. You want standardized sub-assemblies across manufacturers AND across multiple generations of vehicles. Good luck with that!
...
I'd still argue that batteries are a major roadblock to full electric cars. The Volt can go what, 40 miles, before the engine kicks in? Pull the engine and replace that with the same weight in batteries, and it could go maybe 80 miles? You can't even get out of the state with that. Even if I could swap packs, I'd have to stop and swap twice to get from Indy to Louisville!

I said it was a pipe dream!

We are getting better at backwards compatibility, at least the software market has started to do it to a degree.

One point that may have been unclear in my OP, and I have edited it to reflect that, is that each car would have multiple bays. So instead of 1 big battery bank, you have 10 bays, each that can hold a smaller battery set. So with 10 bays you could have 8 batteries and 2 APUs for city driving, or 3 batteries and 7 APUs for longer highway trips.

If your daily commute is 5 miles, maybe you'd only have a few bays loaded normally to reduce weight and be able to keep a set fully charged at home for the longer trips.

If I want a car and a truck (and I currently have a car and two trucks), I could buy the truck fully loaded with lots of bays, batteries, and APUs. Then instead of spending another $15k on a car, I just buy the car with all bays empty, and for my daily driving I can use some of the batteries/APUs from the truck.

 

[revsaxon]

Its a great idea, but it would kill the automotive market. No-one would buy new cars anymore, and what big manufacture would want that? Yes, the could make a killing on various modules/APUs but large businesses are slow to react to market changes like that. Look at the RIAA and the whole digital downloading thing. Took them how long to get over the idea that CD is a dead media and very few people are willing to shell out 20$ for 12 songs when they only want one (and that was moving at the speed of the internet, which is like dog years I think)

Sounds exactly like turning a car into an AR-15 though, and id buy one within the first year they were out more than likely.

 

[eldirector]

Did you happen to see the Popular Mechanics article about the GM Volt platform from several years ago? The concept was very close to what you describe: a modular platform that would accept several power options (battery/motor, gas/diesel engine APU, or both), and full electric motors on 2 or 4 wheels. It would also accept several body configurations, so the same chassis could be a 2-door, 4-door, small truck, or van.

Of course, the production version doesn't resemble this at all. That's the difference between R&D (pipe dream) and production (reality).

I think we'll get there eventually.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Did you happen to see the Popular Mechanics article about the GM Volt platform from several years ago? The concept was very close to what you describe: a modular platform that would accept several power options (battery/motor, gas/diesel engine APU, or both), and full electric motors on 2 or 4 wheels. It would also accept several body configurations, so the same chassis could be a 2-door, 4-door, small truck, or van.

Of course, the production version doesn't resemble this at all. That's the difference between R&D (pipe dream) and production (reality).

I think we'll get there eventually.

I was talking with a couple of the design engineers for the Volt at an electric car trade show many years ago and they described what you are talking about. The engineers would come up with something then the marketing guys would kill it.

That's ok, the average consumer is used to being told what they want...

 

[SmileDocHill]

Yeah. I was part of a solar car design team for one of the competitions when I was younger. I could build the car I want right now but it would cost a hundred grand as a one-off specialty car. There's no reason that mass-produced, this car couldn't sell for under $10k as a base model, and upwards for bigger cars/trucks.

Friend of mine was on the Rose Hulman solar race car design team back in the day. I love talking to him on these matters. I have always thought (like you alluded to) the battery pack should be modular and treated like the tank you buy your propane in. Just pull up swap it out for a full one and move on should be an option at the "filling station". It could then be an entirely different business model that takes the "battery life" issue out of the picture for the consumer and makes it profitable for them to sell the service of refueling, and upgrading the battery for you.

 

[ATOMonkey]

The APU is going to be as much of a problem as anything else.

Multiple gen sets, with enough power to motivate a car or truck along, are going to be heavy and take up a lot of space.

It would be much more space and weight efficient to have one big engine and generator, than several smaller modular ones.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The APU is going to be as much of a problem as anything else.

Multiple gen sets, with enough power to motivate a car or truck along, are going to be heavy and take up a lot of space.

It would be much more space and weight efficient to have one big engine and generator, than several smaller modular ones.

I agree with this.

Batteries that can be changed out by a single person are going to be small. To have a genset that fits in that bay is going to be worthless.

Maybe have banks of batteries with multiple battery bays.

Example: 3 banks of batteries, each bank has 4 50-lb batteries (about the right size to be handled by a single person). Then, you can completely change out a full bank of batteries for a single APU. I think that would be a bit more realistic both in weight and size.

But I do like where you're going with this. I want a diesel APU, I can get a diesel APU. I want gas I can do gas.

Swapping batteries out may be a problem though. I can just imagine just like when you get an old-school LP tank at a garage sale for a dollar. Just go down to the automated LP thing at the gas station and switch it out. Bingo. Same thing for a battery that fails, even though it still shows having X life left on it. Just go swap it out at the station.

I wish I could help you out with your proposition because it definitely sounds like the way of the future, and I'd be all over a car like that for my 40 mile roundtrip commute to work everyday.

Although, I would definitely settle for a good diesel car.

 

[bobzilla]

That would be slick, though. Rather than tossing a perfectly good body and frame when the driveline wears out, you could just re-power and keep going.

I already do that. As does a large chunk of america. I run them until they are done then but a new one. Current fleet consists of an 11 year old Hyundai(195k miles, likely due to die in about 3 years), a 9 year old Hyundai (140k miles, likely to be replaced in ~6 years), a 5 year old GMC (likely to be replaced ~20 years) and a 23 year old Corvette (likely to be replaced when I get bored with it for somethng equally fun).

 

[shibumiseeker]

Maybe have banks of batteries with multiple battery bays.

Yeah, I realized I wasn't clear on that, I changed the OP to reflect what I was trying to convey. I envision a number of bays, say 10 as a base number. Bigger cars/trucks, more bays. You commute 4-5 miles a day, you might only have 2 bays occupied, one with a battery, one with an APU. Your 40 mile commute, 8 batteries, 2 APUs. Going on a road trip? 3 batteries, 7 APUs.

The reason I picked 10 bays as an arbitrary number is that if you take a load that one person can deal with at a maximum as 80lbs, that gives you 800lbs worth of batteries, which is about what the average electric car not using lead acid batteries has now. That car has a range of 50-70 miles. The exact number of bays though, isn't as important as the ability to divide the load up.

It takes about 15kW to move a Prius down the road at 70mph, that could easily be accomplished with several APUs, and only the ones actually needed could be run at a time, which means they can be run at the optimal speed for their power output versus fuel economy instead of having the engines varying their speeds which is harder to tune across the power band.

It also gives some redundancy in the event of failure of one battery bank or APU, you can still make your trip or at least make it home.

There's engineering challenges to overcome, but those are trivial compared to the social/political ones.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I pictured at least more than one battery and the batteries being able to be lowered individually from the bottom of the car. Kind of like your mower deck. You lower one, pull forward and pick up the full one. This would at a minimum reduce the issue of some people not being able to lift the batteries. The driver/consumer would not have to be able to pick them up and the "filling station" or your home could have a standardized docking station to position your car over the batteries to change them out. Wouldn't take much engineering to make this mechanism. I still picture the batteries being small enough to carry (up to/ around 50lbs) but having to be able to lift even a 30 pound weight eliminates a decent number of the population.