Vista Outdoor Sale to CSG... Good, Bad or Ugly?

[BE Mike]

These kinds of sales always make me nervous. I remember when Hercules became Alliant (an employee owned company, I believe). Things actually seemed to get better. I hope that Alliant Powders can become more available with a sale, but I'm not holding my breath. Vista, not only owns Alliant, but a number of companies, many of them ammo companies.

https://www.guns.com/news/2024/04/09/czech-group-highlights-benefits-of-looming-vista-acquisition

 

[BP84]

So CSG is not CZ, correct?

 

[Mgderf]

In my opinion, Vista Outdoors has not been friendly to the gun community.

 

[42769vette]

In my opinion, Vista Outdoors has not been friendly to the gun community.

Not 100% sure that can be considered an opinion.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

If my understanding is correct, there is still a chance that they will take a different offer from a different buyer. They are still negotiating.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/vista-outdoor-urges-mnc-capital-increase-offer-price-3-bln-bid-2024-04-22/

 

[dieselrealtor]

Curious why Vista is selling off divisions.

 

[BE Mike]

So CSG is not CZ, correct?

I believe that you are correct. This transaction seems confusing as it looks like there are still bits and pieces to be sold off by Vista. The offer by CSG appears to be unsolicited by Vista. We'll have to see how this shakes out.

 

[BP84]

I believe that you are correct. This transaction seems confusing as it looks like there are still bits and pieces to be sold off by Vista. The offer by CSG appears to be unsolicited by Vista. We'll have to see how this shakes out.

It scary when companies buy most of the markets and then can basically control pricing through monopolies. Vista owns alot of the ammo manufacturers. Hodgdon now owns most of the powder manufacturers. Coincidence that prices are now skyrocketing?

 

[Hawkeye7br]

It scary when companies buy most of the markets and then can basically control pricing through monopolies. Vista owns alot of the ammo manufacturers. Hodgdon now owns most of the powder manufacturers. Coincidence that prices are now skyrocketing?

I bought stock in Vista at about $28. It went to $40 in 2021, then dropped back to $30 and largely sat there until I sold it.
How does an company that owns several ammo manufacturers not make money this last 3 years?

 

[Brian's Surplus]

It scary when companies buy most of the markets and then can basically control pricing through monopolies. Vista owns alot of the ammo manufacturers. Hodgdon now owns most of the powder manufacturers. Coincidence that prices are now skyrocketing?

Hodgdon does not own any powder manufacturers. When they sold Goex, they quit manufacturing powder. They are strictly a packaging and marketing company now. They purchase powder from several different manufacturers from around the globe.

The biggest reason (not the only reason) for the price increases is the unprecedented high demand for powder and other propellants. This demand will only increase more now that the $95 billion military spending bill was passed.

The companies that make powder for civilians also make products for the military. In addition to gunpowder, they also make other types of propellant, like rocket and missile fuel. These products are in high demand, and that demand is only going to increase now that they have billions of dollars to throw at it. These products will ALWAYS take priority, putting civilian products in the backseat. This increases scarcity, consequently increasing the price.

If conflict around the globe increases, so will prices. If it gets bad enough (WW3 or something similar), they will eventually shut off civilian sales completely. If that happens, you would see scalpers selling ammo and components for prices exponentially higher than you have ever seen. All of the store shelves would be completely empty. If you think the COVID shortages were bad, the WW3 shortages will blow your mind if they occur.

Propellant is sold on a global market. Even if the US is not in a war, we supply weapons to over half of the world. Any conflict in the world affects prices, regardless of who is involved.

If you need something, you should get it while you can.

 

[xwing]

IMO I think it's a bad thing. I voted against the sale recently as a shareholder... (Not that my piddly number of shares matter, but might as well.)

 

[Chance]

Hodgdon does not own any powder manufacturers. When they sold Goex, they quit manufacturing powder. They are strictly a packaging and marketing company now. They purchase powder from several different manufacturers from around the globe.

The biggest reason (not the only reason) for the price increases is the unprecedented high demand for powder and other propellants. This demand will only increase more now that the $95 billion military spending bill was passed.

The companies that make powder for civilians also make products for the military. In addition to gunpowder, they also make other types of propellant, like rocket and missile fuel. These products are in high demand, and that demand is only going to increase now that they have billions of dollars to throw at it. These products will ALWAYS take priority, putting civilian products in the backseat. This increases scarcity, consequently increasing the price.

If conflict around the globe increases, so will prices. If it gets bad enough (WW3 or something similar), they will eventually shut off civilian sales completely. If that happens, you would see scalpers selling ammo and components for prices exponentially higher that you have ever seen. All of the store shelves would be completely empty. If you think the COVID shortages were bad, the WW3 shortages will blow your mind if they occur.

Propellant is sold on a global market. Even if the US is not in a war, we supply weapons to over half of the world. Any conflict in the world affects prices, regardless of who is involved.

If you need something, you should get it while you can.

Let’s hear comments from the “reloading isn’t worth my time” crowd….

 

[bgcatty]

I bought stock in Vista at about $28. It went to $40 in 2021, then dropped back to $30 and largely sat there until I sold it.
How does a company that owns several ammo manufacturers not make money this last 3 years?

They don’t make money because people in black suits and bean counters ran the company and not 2A focused people. Just like the idiots at Cerberus that ran 2A companies into the ground.

 

[bgcatty]

They don’t make money because people in black suits and bean counters ran the company and not 2A focused people. Just like the idiots at Cerberus that ran 2A companies into the ground.

Let’s hear comments from the “reloading isn’t worth my time” crowd….

Reloading is more of a hobby than a project to save money on ammo. People who say reloading is not worth the time just don’t want to invest their time and effort in another hobby. Me personally, I enjoy reloading as a hobby and form of mind clearing therapy. I concentrate on what I’m doing while reloading and it clears your mind because it does require total attention to detail and what you are doing.
My ! Endeavor to Persevere!