Problems with 9mm cast bullets

[draftyranger]

I have been trying to find a good cast load for 9mm but I am having issues. I am using Vance bullets 120 gr lead cast bullets, bought at the Indy 1500, and Winchester 231 and Hercules Bullseye powder. I have tried several charges from the starting charge up to just under the max charge for these powders. I am using the Lyman 48th edition reloading manual. Some of the loads I have tried have been fairly accurate but I am having really bad leading, and thats after shooting five shot groups. I use Vance bullets for my 38 spl loads and have very minimal leading, and they shoot great! Any ideas on what I need to do to minimize the leading? Maybe different powder? I am shooting these loads through a Smith and Wesson 5904. Thanks!

 

[billybob44]

ALL LEADING IS RELATIVE...

Part of the 'Fun' of shooting lead is SOME lead in the barrel. With that said, is the leading full length of the barrel, mostly at the breech end, or mostly at the muzzle end??

What is the diameter of these Vance bullets? What diameter does your S&W 5904 "Slug" out at??
What brinell hardness are these bullets?? What speed are you running them at??

For ME: I run 125gr. Wheel Weight cast bullets, sized to .357", at 1050fps. or so, with W-W 231+Hodgdon TiteGroup, out of my CZ's+Glocks (Aftermarket barrels), with little leading==Cleans up with 1/2 dozen passes of wire brush+solvent patches...Bill.

 

[draftyranger]

The leading occurs at the chamber end of the barrel. The Vance bullets are truncated cone and Mic at .354. Not sure what the brinell hardness is. I hav'nt slugged the barrel, what would I use to to slug the barrel? I am not interested in casting my own bullets due to lack of space and time. Is there another company that sells cast bullets I could try. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[billybob44]

The leading occurs at the chamber end of the barrel. The Vance bullets are truncated cone and Mic at .354. Not sure what the brinell hardness is. I hav'nt slugged the barrel, what would I use to to slug the barrel? I am not interested in casting my own bullets due to lack of space and time. Is there another company that sells cast bullets I could try. Thanks for all the advice!

.354" should be too small of diameter for a 9MM cast bullet. Most are .356". As I said, mine shoots .357" diameter well.
If you are SURE that your Vance CAST bullets are .354" or smaller, I would contact them for replacement. You are NOT getting a good gas seal with your .354" bullets, and you are getting "Blow By" around the bullets, with the flame/gas pressure+that WILL cause excessive leading.

Take your 9MM barrel to a sporting goods shop+match up a fishing sinker that fits tight into the breech end. With a brass dowel drive the sinker through your barrel+mic it for diameter. It probably will mic at .355"-.356" on the outsides.

When I buy factory made cast bullets I buy from Brad@Missouri Bullet Company--GREAT people+GREAT bullets. In their 9MM, I like the 124gr. "Small Ball" RN bullets...Bill.

 

[SSGSAD]

The leading occurs at the chamber end of the barrel. The Vance bullets are truncated cone and Mic at .354. Not sure what the brinell hardness is. I hav'nt slugged the barrel, what would I use to to slug the barrel? I am not interested in casting my own bullets due to lack of space and time. Is there another company that sells cast bullets I could try. Thanks for all the advice!

"Most" 9 mm, run around .355, or .356, as mentioned above. Brinell hardness, is a test, that tells how hard the lead is. Swaged are usually soft, cast can be soft, or hard. Give Andrew a call, at Profire, he has been expecting some Missouri Bullets in, they are usually 18 on the brinell scale, and I am told that is HARD.....

 

[draftyranger]

Thanks for the advice. I will start by slugging my barrel and go from there!

 

[hammer24]

.354" should be too small of diameter for a 9MM cast bullet. Most are .356". As I said, mine shoots .357" diameter well.
If you are SURE that your Vance CAST bullets are .354" or smaller, I would contact them for replacement. You are NOT getting a good gas seal with your .354" bullets, and you are getting "Blow By" around the bullets, with the flame/gas pressure+that WILL cause excessive leading.

Take your 9MM barrel to a sporting goods shop+match up a fishing sinker that fits tight into the breech end. With a brass dowel drive the sinker through your barrel+mic it for diameter. It probably will mic at .355"-.356" on the outsides.

When I buy factory made cast bullets I buy from Brad@Missouri Bullet Company--GREAT people+GREAT bullets. In their 9MM, I like the 124gr. "Small Ball" RN bullets...Bill.

There ya go. I second all of this. including the MBC small ball. Your .354 will always get you leading in almost any 9mm.

 

[sloughfoot]

I like Oregon Trail lead bullets. And .356 is needed for a 9mm.

 

[red_zr24x4]

I'm casting my own using wheel weights, sized to .355 with 4.2 g of tite-group. I've shot them for years in a Sig 226 without leading. For the last couple of Months I've been shooting them in my new RIA 9mm 1911 again without leading.

 

[Newhoosier]

There is a formula to detirmine best Bn hardness for CUP pressure, I'm at work right now and never memorised it but if i remember correctly go to Missouri bullit co. Websight and click on the tech. Tab it will explain Bn = cup

 

[Sagamore - One]

I just helped a friend trouble shoot his 9mm and found the die setting on the taper crimp was reducing the front band of the bullet to well below bore size. Adjusted the taper crimp die to minimal crimp and pulled apart a loaded round , measured the bullet..... test fired and leading was almost completely eliminated.
I suggest you pull apart one of your reloads and mike the bullet.

 

[mac45]

As others have said, 9mm wants .356" or .357"
Make sure your calipers are clean and zeroed, and measure another bullet. One might just be a fluke.

 

[ifr2]

A question for Billybob44, how many grains of TiteGroup powder are you using to push your 125 gr wheelweight bullet?

 

[red_zr24x4]

A question for Billybob44, how many grains of TiteGroup powder are you using to push your 125 gr wheel weight bullet?

Not Billy, but I'm running 4.2g of tite-group with a 125g wheel weight bullet lubed with home-made lude using mostly bees wax

 

[billybob44]

A question for Billybob44, how many grains of TiteGroup powder are you using to push your 125 gr wheelweight bullet?

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com
^^^Go with this--Per Hodgdon..Bill.

 

[draftyranger]

Got around to slugging the barrel on my 5904, its .355, like everyone said it should be. Ordered some 125 gr. RN bullets from the Indiana Bullet Company. Their website says they are sized to .356. Gona give these a try and see what happens!

 

[XtremeVel]

As others have said, 9mm wants .356" or .357"
Make sure your calipers are clean and zeroed, and measure another bullet. One might just be a fluke.

Good info but I think the OP really needs to use a micrometer before he could possibly discard a qty of bullets.... Unless the calipers are of good quality, preferably with carbide inserts in jaws, I wouldn't trust them not be be possibly a little worn.... My box @ work has too many worn out tips for me to have confidence in them when it comes to measuring within .0005/.001 reliably...

 

[mac45]

Good info but I think the OP really needs to use a micrometer before he could possibly discard a qty of bullets.... Unless the calipers are of good quality, preferably with carbide inserts in jaws, I wouldn't trust them not be be possibly a little worn.... My box @ work has too many worn out tips for me to have confidence in them when it comes to measuring within .0005/.001 reliably...

My bad, I should have said make sure your micrometer is clean and zeroed. The OP said he Mic'ed a bullet at .354"
I suppose I'm just in the habit of talking about calipers here.

 

[draftyranger]

I took 20 random bullets from the box, even some from the bottom, and remeasured them. Measured 20 bullets total. 19 measured at .354, 1 measured at .353. I am using a nice pair of clean lyman dial calipers to measure them with. I measured both above and below the wax groove. I have come to the conclusion that most if not all of the bullets in this box are undersized. My appologies for saying earlier that I mic'ed them. I used dial calipers not a micrometer. I also have another box of bullets from Vance Bullets full of .38 caliber 158gr lead round nose bullets. For the hell of it I measured 20 random bullets and got measurments from .355 to .357. Seems a bit undersized to me. Havn't slugged the bore in my .38 yet, but i havn't notice much leading at all when I shoot it, and they shoot great! I have ordered a box of 500 9mm 125gr lead bullets from Indiana Bullet Company. I am going to try these and see if they are sized correctly, if so, i might have to start buying from them.

 

[XtremeVel]

I took 20 random bullets from the box, even some from the bottom, and remeasured them. Measured 20 bullets total. 19 measured at .354, 1 measured at .353. I am using a nice pair of clean lyman dial calipers to measure them with. I measured both above and below the wax groove. I have come to the conclusion that most if not all of the bullets in this box are undersized. My appologies for saying earlier that I mic'ed them. I used dial calipers not a micrometer. I also have another box of bullets from Vance Bullets full of .38 caliber 158gr lead round nose bullets. For the hell of it I measured 20 random bullets and got measurments from .355 to .357. Seems a bit undersized to me. Havn't slugged the bore in my .38 yet, but i havn't notice much leading at all when I shoot it, and they shoot great! I have ordered a box of 500 9mm 125gr lead bullets from Indiana Bullet Company. I am going to try these and see if they are sized correctly, if so, i might have to start buying from them.

If your calipers aren't worn, they will be fine... It would take alot of use on softer metals such as brass and lead to wear the tips fast...

If your ordered bullets don't work better, might look into either Missouri Bullet Co or Dardas Bullets out of Michigan... If I remember right, Missouri only offers .356 dia and Dardas offers .356, .357, and .358.... I order from both companies and have always been happy...