9mm Largo Loading Data

[DoggyDaddy]

Anybody have any good loading data for 9mm largo? I've found some, but I'm not finding anything that matches up with what I have. I am wanting to use 115 gr. FMJ projectiles mainly, but the data that I can find is for 125 gr.. Likewise, I have some 125 gr. JHP, but the data I can find is for 115 gr. JHP. I also have Clays and Titegroup powders. I can find Clays data for the above projectiles but nothing for Titegroup. My main concern is the OAL. I've read that I can use 9mm Luger data, because the larger Largo cases will reduce the pressure to a safe level, but of course, the OAL data won't be the same. I've also read that I can use .38 Auto (not Super) data, but again there is a slight difference in OAL.

Here's what I've found. Does anyone have "equivalents" or recommendations on how I can adapt these to use what I have on hand? (Clays or Titegroup and 115 gr. FMJ or 125 gr. JHP)

I am not using the below data! See subsequent posts. And thanks to everyone that kept me from blowing up my guns or myself!

---

.355 115 gr. JHP Cartridge OAL: 1.250"

Powder/Velocity	1100	1150	1200	1250	1300	1350	1400
Bullseye	4.9	5.2	5.5	5.8	6.0
WW231	5.0	5.2	5.5	5.7	6.0
Power Pistol	6.2	6.5	6.9	7.2	7.6	7.9
AA#5	6.9	7.3	7.7	8.1	8.5	8.9
Univ Clays	5.0	5.3	5.6	5.9	6.2	6.5
HS-6	7.2	7.5	7.9	8.2	8.6	8.9
WAP	6.5	6.8	7.1	7.7	8.0	8.3
Viht 3N37	6.2	6.5	6.8	7.1	7.5	7.8
AA#7	8.7	9.1	9.5	9.9	10.4
Energy/ft. lbs.	309	338	368	399	431	465	501

.355 125 gr. FMJ Cartridge OAL: 1.300"

Powder/Velocity	1050	1100	1150	1200	1250	1300	1350
Bullseye	4.5	4.8	5.2	5.5	5.9
WW231	4.7	5.0	5.3	5.6	5.9
Power Pistol	6.0	6.3	6.6	6.9	7.2	7.5
AA#5	6.8	7.1	7.5	7.8	8.2	8.6
Univ Clays	5.1	5.4	5.7	6.0	6.2	6.5

 

[BMDRAKE71]

Look up 38ACP load data for 9mm Largo. If you have a quality pistol, you may be able to use starting or minimal loads of 38 Super but 38ACP will keep you from blowing up your face with an Astra or a Star while letting you run a bullet faster or bigger than a stock 9x19mm (9mm Luger)

I own a 38 Super 1911 and I've owned a Destroyer Carbine and an Astra pistol in the past. 38 ACP loadings let me use the cartridges interchangeably.

Bruce

 

[BMDRAKE71]

LoadData: .38 Automatic / .38 Auto / .38 ACP (Lee Precision Data) Charge and Load Information/Data for the .38 Automatic / .38 Auto / .38 ACP (Lee Precision Data). Caliber Reloading Data
Here you go. 16 different loads for the 115gr projos alone.

 

[BMDRAKE71]

9mm Largo Loading Text
And here is a link to reload data for the 9mm Largo as well.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

LoadData: .38 Automatic / .38 Auto / .38 ACP (Lee Precision Data) Charge and Load Information/Data for the .38 Automatic / .38 Auto / .38 ACP (Lee Precision Data). Caliber Reloading Data
Here you go. 16 different loads for the 115gr projos alone.

Thanks! I had found that page, but again, it doesn't list Titegroup or Clays powders. Surely someone has used one of these powders with the types of bullets I have on hand.

 

[mac45]

You need to be a subscriber to see the data.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You need to be a subscriber to see the data.

You do? I can see it just fine...

*edit* I just tried to sign up... they want 30 bucks. I declined.

 

[BMDRAKE71]

Sorry about that. Here is another set of load data for 38ACP and 9mm Largo that won't cost you an annual subscription. I forgot that I've been a member with them for about 10 years.

http://www.stevespages.com/355p_1.html

Bruce

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Sorry about that. Here is another set of load data for 38ACP and 9mm Largo that won't cost you an annual subscription. I forgot that I've been a member with them for about 10 years.

355p_1

Bruce

Thanks! I bookmarked it in case I get any of those powders. I'm loading up 50 rounds of 115 gr. FMJ (plated) and using 6.0 - 6.1 gr. of Clays. I've got the OAL set at 1.26". That should put me around the middle to high middle range of velocity/pressure, going by the charts in my original post, don't you think? I'll be shooting these out of a Llama "Extra" (1911) and a Destroyer carbine, so I think I should be in a safe zone.

 

[mssmith44]

"Thanks! I bookmarked it in case I get any of those powders. I'm loading up 50 rounds of 115 gr. FMJ (plated) and using 6.0 - 6.1 gr. of Clays. I've got the OAL set at 1.26". That should put me around the middle to high middle range of velocity/pressure, going by the charts in my original post, don't you think? I'll be shooting these out of a Llama "Extra" (1911) and a Destroyer carbine, so I think I should be in a safe zone."

DANGER Will Robinson. I don't know where you got that data but that is waay too much Clays powder. 38 super max load is 4.6 grains. your load of regular Clays not universal would almost guarantee a big boom. Maybe a Kaboom. Do not use that much Clays. more like about 3 grains and work up from there.

 

[mssmith44]

I think you should take down all the data on the first post. They are excessive for 38 super and the largo in old pistols is not up for those loads.
Max load for AA # 7 in 38 super is 10.3 grains.

I have an Accurate manual that shows max load for 9mm largo(38 ACP) for HDY 115 XTP 7.4 grains 980 fps to 8.2 grains 1125 fps

 

[BMDRAKE71]

I've never used Clays in my 38 Super pistol or my 9mm LARGO pistol/carbine. IF the load data came from the powder company's website, than that load would be fine for a 38 SUPER chambered pistol (Llama). the actual LARGOs I would stay with the 38ACP loads or actual 9mm LARGO load data.

Bruce

 

[mssmith44]

I think the data that you are showing is for 9X23 winchester, which is the same outer dimension as the largo but loaded to 55,000 psi instead of 23,000 cup?(Accurate Manual)
9×23mm Winchester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
9×23mm Largo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I think you should take down all the data on the first post. They are excessive for 38 super and the largo in old pistols is not up for those loads.
Max load for AA # 7 in 38 super is 10.3 grains.

I have an Accurate manual that shows max load for 9mm largo(38 ACP) for HDY 115 XTP 7.4 grains 980 fps to 8.2 grains 1125 fps

Wow, I'm glad I checked back here! Thank you! So Universal Clays is not the same as Clays? Guess I'll be pulling all these apart. That data that I posted comes from this website: http://9mmlargo.com/cartridge/loads.htm . That's the same site that BMDRAKE71 posted. Damn... why the heck would they say Universal Clays? Why not Universal, OR Clays??

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Okay, I think what I'm going to do after pulling all these apart, is to use 9mm Luger data, but of course use the Largo OAL. Being a larger case, the pressures should be okay. And it's not without precedent... I've read several instances of people doing just that with success. What a pain... but it's infinitely better than spending the rest of my life with the nickname "Lefty" or "Stumpy"...

Going this route, I will only be using 3.2 grains of Clays, which seems to be more in line.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I've been doing a little more reading, and it appears that I'm not the only one that's confused by Hodgdon's nomenclature for their "Clays" series of powders. It is further exacerbated when various reloading manuals all have THEIR own nomenclature. Some call Universal Clays just "Universal", which is what led to my confusion. When I saw "Universal Clays", I (incorrectly) assumed that they meant "Clays". Call me crazy, but I think that's just an accident waiting to happen. I think once I run through the 2 lbs. of Clays that I have, I'll just stick to Titegroup. As far as I know, there's only ONE Titegroup - no confusion!

I would really think that the reloading industry would have some kind of standard on naming conventions. H4831 is not the same as IMR 4831 (even though both are technically Hodgdon powders now), Clays not the same as Universal Clays, etc.. Why would they want to allow powders with such differing properties to be named so similarly?

 

[mssmith44]

HI DoggyDaddy, I was reading the website and some of the information on 9mm Largo. The data mentioned is for a modern 1911 style auto loader with fully supported chamber and new Starline brass. I shoot 38 super and at the time the 38 super comp case came out, Starline was making the 9mm Largo cases. They sent me some of those and the new at the time 38 super comp cases which had a thicker web and no rim. They are capable of higher pressure than even +P loads in the 38 super. The 9X23 winchester is very close to the same on the outside as the 9mm Largo but much thicker web and walls. The problem with all of this is that there are older guns that can't take the higher pressure loads. I am not sure what yours is. There are some brands such as Star and Llama who made 38 super and 9mm Largo. So if the gun was capable of 38 super loadings, it could take hotter than nominal loadings for the 9mm Largo.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

HI DoggyDaddy, I was reading the website and some of the information on 9mm Largo. The data mentioned is for a modern 1911 style auto loader with fully supported chamber and new Starline brass. I shoot 38 super and at the time the 38 super comp case came out, Starline was making the 9mm Largo cases. They sent me some of those and the new at the time 38 super comp cases which had a thicker web and no rim. They are capable of higher pressure than even +P loads in the 38 super. The 9X23 winchester is very close to the same on the outside as the 9mm Largo but much thicker web and walls. The problem with all of this is that there are older guns that can't take the higher pressure loads. I am not sure what yours is. There are some brands such as Star and Llama who made 38 super and 9mm Largo. So if the gun was capable of 38 super loadings, it could take hotter than nominal loadings for the 9mm Largo.

I'm using Starline 9mm Largo brass. The pistol is a 1941 Llama "Extra" which is basically a long slide 1911 (5 1/2" barrel) chambered for 9mm Largo/.38 ACP. It's not made for shooting 38 Super because of the reasons you mention (the higher pressure), although because it's a 1911 design, it is probably able to handle hotter rounds than the Astras because of their blowback design. I also read all the warnings about using the Super loads and the 9x23 Winchester loads too.

It's a shame there isn't more data for the Largo out there. As you've seen if you looked at that site, the bullet styles for which they provide data are fairly limited. That's another reason that I think I may have better luck using 9mm Luger data. I just got a new chronograph for Christmas but haven't had the chance to try it out yet. Once I get it up and running, I'll be able to come up with my own data on what loads produce what velocity, etc..

Here are a few pics of the pistol...

And here it is next to my full size Springfield 1911...

 

[mssmith44]

I have one load book that shows 38 ACP and says that the data can be used for 9mm Largo and some other 9mm rounds. It is only Accurate powder though. I will say that for 38 super the slower burning powders are better for higher end loads. Something like 231 titegroup are good for low end loads. I have tried WST and that is no good. It was sporadic with pressure and velocity. Clays has a reputation for the same in 40. Just go for low end loads with the faster powders. A little bit of bullet setback can cause a pressure spike and blow out the bottom of the case.

You might check the barrel for how much support it has for the bottom of the case at the ramp portion of the barrel.
A ramped barrel will give more support than stock.
Another thing that you could do is use 9X23 brass that is a lot stronger than 9mm Largo.
Give Starline a call about the relative strength of the 9mm Largo and they might have data for you as well.
Do you know what recoil spring you have in your Llama?
A super uses 16 pound springs.

 

[warthog]

I can print some out and bring it with me for when we meet up DD.