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  1. #31
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    half the people who got it were vaccinated... the other half that got it weren't.
    Doesn't that seem like a horrendous success rate? Also we are talking about more than half. People go into the clinic thinking they are going to be immune from the disease, and the shot ends up infecting them! I would demand my money back!

    What if 2/3 of the customers who went in for a tire rotation, got slashed tires from the shop? I mean how can this level of success be at all defensible? Does this quack science work or not? Maybe they need some more booster shots!


    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    If vaccination rates are greater than 50%, then the vaccinations helped people. (i bet the vaccination rates are a lot higher than 50%)
    The 197 vaccinated cases of Pertussis may never have been exposed to the disease in the first place. The vaccine and its shoddy standards of success actually helps propagate the disease. Those "immune" people go home and give it to their families after their doctors infect them with the disease. Makes you wonder how much of that "epidemic" was caused by the vaccinated people.


    Quote Originally Posted by 04DarkShadowGT View Post
    How about you make a decision for you and your family. How about you let others do the same. Posting the "information" you do is nothing more than scare tactics to get people to see your side.
    I'd be happy to let you make your own decisions. Can you get your representatives to promise the same for me?

    If tax dollars weren't being fed into the vaccine industry and laws didn't compel people to vaccinate, it wouldn't be quite as much of an issue (any more than any other medical gimmick). Why don't you call your senator and ask him to repeal these bogus laws regarding schools & government-mandated health care. We can work together then leave each other alone. Till then this is an ongoing fight to reach people.


    Quote Originally Posted by 04DarkShadowGT View Post
    I am sure for every study you can find about how vaccines are bad, you can find just as many if not more of how they have helped.
    The OP says that 2/3 of the people who went into the vaccine clinic came out worse than they went in. This remains unrefuted as far as I can see. Tell me otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by public servant View Post
    You are absolutely correct. No one can or should be able to force a parent(s) into vaccinating their children against their will.

    Home school. Problem solved.

    In the OP's opinion this would make the children healthier and safer. In my opinion it will make them smarter.
    As long as I am forced to pay for these government institutions, I should be able to use them while retaining all of my rights found in the Constitution. They are rights, after all, not privileges.

    Its kind of like saying, you don't want to be illegally pulled over & searched? Stay home. Don't want to be cavity searched and radiated by the TSA? Don't fly. Don't want to have police guns drawn on you for OC? Don't carry.

    That's just not how rights work. You should not have to hide at home in order to live your life and not have your rights violated. Plus, from the article I posted, looks like the vaccinated kids are the ones missing school from all the illnesses they are injected with.

  2. #32
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Anybody who thinks they can stump the anti-vaccination crowd should bring questions to this presentation next week! Bring an open mind.

    Chance to get educated about vaccines and dangers - local event

  3. #33
    Grandmaster Bigum1969's Avatar
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    Millions are alive today because of vaccinations.

    I really like public servant's solution: If you don't want to vaccinate your kids... home school.

    And please keep them the heck away from my kids.

    Once again , it's time for a

  4. #34
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigum1969 View Post
    Millions are alive today because of vaccinations.
    I'm just going to throw out an equally unprovable thesis statement by saying, I think more people would be alive today, with a higher quality of life, without the advent of vaccines. We don't dump our trash and feces into the street gutters anymore. We have indoor plumbing and running water. We have antibacterial soap. We have cleanliness standards at hospitals & sophisticated wound care knowledge. We know how to cook our meat and not cross-contaminate it with raw meat. We have condoms. We have advanced pest-control abilities. We live a cleaner lifestyle than ever before.

    Vaccines receive 100% of the credit for every 20th century advancement that has increased longevity. Are vaccines really the reason? Is correlation equivalent to causation for pro-vaccinators?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bigum1969 View Post
    I really like public servant's solution: If you don't want to vaccinate your kids... home school.
    You must not buy into the whole "I have rights" nonsense, eh? As long as a penny of my money is funding your public schools, I should be able to send my kid there without drugging him up first.

    I simply don't ascribe to government-mandated health care & the collective's desire to force their way of life into kid's bloodstream. YMMV


    Quote Originally Posted by Bigum1969 View Post
    And please keep them the heck away from my kids.
    Ah... so you did read the article. It is alarming how those vaccinated kids get sick so easily. Could it be their immune systems are being suppressed by the chemicals they are forced to fight off? I have said this before, but perhaps the people who say things like you just did should be the ones homeschooling. Thats the only way they will be truly safe, unless of course you are one of the 2/3 crowd who gets the disease from the shot itself.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy317 View Post
    Ah, a doctor, an all knowing being who can always be trusted. Doctors, the people who once told others it was OK to take Vioxx, Thalidomide, Rezulin, Duract, Redux/Fen-Phen, Zelnorm, and Propulsid.

    Just eat the Big Mac, go on a diet and take the vaccine.

  6. #36
    Expert bigus_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambone View Post
    Doesn't that seem like a horrendous success rate? Also we are talking about more than half. People go into the clinic thinking they are going to be immune from the disease, and the shot ends up infecting them! I would demand my money back!

    What if 2/3 of the customers who went in for a tire rotation, got slashed tires from the shop? I mean how can this level of success be at all defensible? Does this quack science work or not? Maybe they need some more booster shots!
    OK. I stopped reading after this much. You are completely misinterpreting the study!

    2/3rd of the people who got sick had been vaccinated. That was about 200 people. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands (if not millions), of people were vaccinated. ONLY 200 of THESE people were affected.

    So, using your analogy, if 2 million people go get tires rotated and 200 end up with road damage on their tires at some point after the tires are rotated, would you seriously think that it was the shop's fault?

    p.s. After my daughter got her last series of vaccinations, I asked the doctor about how to best clean my muzzleloader after deer season. He had some great suggestions.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigum1969 View Post
    Millions are alive today because of vaccinations.

    I really like public servant's solution: If you don't want to vaccinate your kids... home school.

    And please keep them the heck away from my kids.

    Once again , it's time for a
    Good position to have. It appears the anti-vax people are causing the death rate from pertussis to rise again, including babies too young to be fully vaccinated. Genomics, Evolution, and Pseudoscience: Whooping cough in California: deaths caused by the anti-vaccination movement

  8. #38
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    So, using your analogy, if 2 million people go get tires rotated and 200 end up with road damage on their tires at some point after the tires are rotated, would you seriously think that it was the shop's fault?
    If it doesn't shake your faith in vaccines, thats okay. Their findings were enough to raise my eyebrows, and make headlines. I was interested to see how anyone would defend this incredible rate of vaccines' failure to work. It seems that you think it is a statistical anomaly. Fair enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    p.s. After my daughter got her last series of vaccinations, I asked the doctor about how to best clean my muzzleloader after deer season. He had some great suggestions.
    So if he told you that using a bar of soap was a silly thing to do, would you invalidate his opinion because he didn't work at a gun store, or have a degree in gunoilology? Would you research to find out if he was right?

  9. #39
    Expert bigus_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambone View Post
    It seems that you think it is a statistical anomaly. Fair enough.
    Not a statistical anomaly... rather, a misinterpretation/misrepresentation of otherwise valid statistics.


    Note: I actually did talk to the doctor a bit about our GSD. He asked if we had any questions (about our daughter's health I presume), but I made a joke about if he had any recommendations to stop her from chasing the dog around (because she has just learned to crawl, and is getting fast). He seemed very interested in GSDs... we didn't actually talk guns at all.

  10. #40
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Good position to have. It appears the anti-vax people are causing the death rate from pertussis to rise again, including babies too young to be fully vaccinated. Genomics, Evolution, and Pseudoscience: Whooping cough in California: deaths caused by the anti-vaccination movement
    Okay. If people with the vaccine are getting sick at a much higher rate than unvaccinated people, I think that statement is indefensible.

    My thoughts on your article:


    The pertussis vaccine, called DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis) has been responsible for a dramatic drop in whooping cough in recent decades. It isn't 100% effective, but its effectiveness relies in part on “herd immunity”: if enough people are immune to the bacteria, then even if someone gets sick, the disease cannot easily spread through the community. This is especially true for very young infants, who are too young to be vaccinated and whose immune systems are not yet strong enough to defeat the bacteria on their own.
    If the pertussis vaccine actually makes people sick with pertussis, I think it is pretty far from the truth to say "it isn't 100% effective."

    Herd immunity? Wtf? Too bad for the people who go to the doctor expecting to pay for individual immunity. Then when you get sick they have a plethora of clever excuses to justify the vaccines failure. "You need more booster shots." Hell, with those kinds of failure rates I'd rather just take my chances and see if I contract the bloody disease myself normally, instead of seeing if by some chance I can manage to be one of the few who do not get sick from the vaccination itself.

    Clearly infants are not strong enough to defeat the chemicals in the vaccine either. The death rate from vaccinating infants with DTaP must be monumental if they actually stopped recommending it for them.


    Anti-vaccination sentiments seem to strike a chord with relatively well-educated segments of the population – the same people who favor organic food and want to use “natural” products as much as possible. Anti-vaxers appeal to this group by arguing that vaccines are unnatural, and that the body’s own immune system can be “boosted” by various natural treatments. Appealing though this may sound, it has no basis in science.
    I find this amusing.

    Really, well-educated people are avoiding vaccines? I'm stunned. They are the same folks who know that eating processed & artificial foods will lead you to an early death? They are probably the same stubborn folks who homeschool their kids because they want their kid to get the best education possible. I can't believe these are the same people!

    Why wouldn't you be able to boost your immune system with vitamins? Do vaccine pushers even take vitamins? Never in my life has my conventional doctor recommended me to take vitamins, only buy prescriptions, the only solution he has ever known. If you can be "immunodeficient", why would you not be able to boost your immune system? Try taking some Vitamin D3 next time your feel a cold coming on.


    Everyone should have their children vaccinated. On top of that, in order to maintain herd immunity, most of us should get the pertussis booster shot if we haven’t had one in the last ten years. That’s what vaccine expert Paul Offit recommends, and I’m planning to follow his advice myself. It won’t take long, and it might save a life.
    LOL. Paul Offit. Mr. "Conflict Of Interest." The vaccine industry's most well paid spokesperson. No wonder his science only works if 100% of the world population buys his product.

    He's the guy who uses his committee position in government to create a market for selling the vaccines that he receives royalties for. Essentially voting himself rich.


    Among the anti-vaccinationists who deserve blame for the current pertussis outbreak is “Dr. Bob” Sears, a kindler, gentler anti-vaxer who claims (like many of them) to be in favor of vaccines, but only under his own, unscientific terms. He stated flatly in the Huffington Post (a hotbed of medical misinformation) recently that pregnant women should not get the DTaP vaccine. But as Dr. Paul Offit tells us in a tragic story, refusing the vaccine can lead directly to the death of an infant.
    So Dr. Paul Offit offers one instance of a child dying of a naturally occurring disease. Let me offer a report of 3587 miscarriages & stillbirths caused by vaccinating pregnant women in the last year alone.


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