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  1. #31
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    5) Do they have their own network of attorneys? If so, are they vetted and do they have experience with self-defense cases? This is a big deal, as someone who's used to defending people who are factually guilty (most trials) may not approach an affirmative defense case properly. In short, they are using to arguing "he didn't do it" instead of "he did it, but it's ok he did) and need to be able to make that second one in a justified shooting case...

    This cannot be stressed enough. Self-Defense is a completely different type of legal case. As BBI said, the nominal basis is to use the "presumption of innocence" as the trump card. But "presumption of innocence" is out the window in defense cases.

    I was a juror in a trial where the defense attorneys obviously had no comfort level employing a self-defense defense. Based on how events apparently unfolded the night of the incident, I thought the defendant potentially had a good self-defense case. But he and/or his lawyers did not make any kind of self-defense argument. They went with their experience, which apparently instructed them that how you win in situations like this, is to "raise doubts." It was dark outside, all the witnesses had consumed alcohol that night, and the defense attorneys thought they could shake the jury's confidence in whether or not those people actually saw, what they said they saw.

    The problem was that we, the jury, had a dead body on a slab to content with, and most people on a jury believe that if there's a dead body, someone did wrong and needs to be punished for it (which is not always the case, but that's how people think). And the defendant, who also drank heavily that night, never said that he did or didn't do it. Only that he "blacked out" and "had no recollection."There was no doubt that somebody got killed, and 5 people said they saw the defendant do it. The defendant himself offered no coherent account of events, and made no effort whatsoever to explain how or why that dead body got dead.

    So guess what the jury did?

    He acted like a guilty person...so we treated him like one. We sent him to jail for 8~23 years for manslaughter and felonious assault. And I, as a person who believes in self-defense and would have likely supported such a claim, supported that guilty verdict. I did not feel that I had any business "inferring" an act of self-defense, if the defendant will not even claim it.

    So take BBI's advice seriously. "Network of Attorneys" doesn't mean sxxt. What matters is - are they comfortable and experienced in coming out from behind the safe-position of "presumption of innocence," and constructing a defense for a situation where the defendant flat-out admits he caused a person's death or injury?
    Last edited by Twangbanger; 12-14-2019 at 23:04.

  2. #32
    Expert dudley0's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    How dare you give me a link to click. I had to read like two paragraphs.

    Whatever happened to serve and protect?

    By the way, thanks. I can barely believe what I read.

  3. #33
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudley0 View Post
    How dare you give me a link to click. I had to read like two paragraphs.

    Whatever happened to serve and protect?

    By the way, thanks. I can barely believe what I read.
    They've got some sort of protection on the website that won't let you highlight to cut/paste. I'm sorry I failed you, my liege.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  4. #34
    Sharpshooter Turf Doctor's Avatar

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    Another Self-Defense Insurance Banned

    https://lawofselfdefense.com/another...nce-is-banned/

    Just putting this out to show what has happened in New York and New Jersey.
    Last edited by Turf Doctor; 12-15-2019 at 20:26.

  5. #35
    Grandmaster cosermann's Avatar

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    Was reading the lead article in the ACLDN January newsletter and it reminded me of this thread. It's an overview of member-involved incidents and assistance over the last decade. -

    https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/a-decade-of-assistance


    Nothing is everything, but everything is something. - Ayoob

  6. #36
    Expert dudley0's Avatar

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    Wow, reading the cases against people who used pepper spray is amazing.

  7. #37
    Marksman

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    I'm sort of curious how a state or city can legally "ban" or restrict your insurance. I mean basically they (state or city) is telling you how to pay for your Attorney. Am I missing something?


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