CCW Insurance Discussion

[VERT]

No first hand knowledge. Don’t plan to find out. I have currently have membership with both 2nd call defense and US law shield. They are different in their approach. One is a pot of money with a network of lawyers, the other has up front money for bail and attorney retainer and is backed by an insurance policy. I have friends that belong to ACLDN.

Lot of little differences between the companies. Hard to find one that checks all the boxes.

 

[ECS686]

While there is probably one of two decent companies . Most remind me of an Agency union trying to confuse work procedure representation against civil or criminal representation...not a good cross over

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7XeJJtgbm2s

 

[cosermann]

I use CCW safe defender plan for retired military and LEO (the only insurer that has actually went to trial) ...

Per the Jan 2017 ACLDN Journal newsletter [1], they had paid legal expenses for 13 members as of then (almost 3 yrs ago) - before trial - preventing many those members from potentially having to go to trial.

[1] - https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/network-track-record

 

[Vigilant]

No first hand knowledge. Don’t plan to find out. I have currently have membership with both 2nd call defense and US law shield. They are different in their approach. One is a pot of money with a network of lawyers, the other has up front money for bail and attorney retainer and is backed by an insurance policy. I have friends that belong to ACLDN.

Lot of little differences between the companies. Hard to find one that checks all the boxes.

In your case, with two insurers, what is the order f insured? Who pays what, when? I’d hate for insurance companies to get their lawyers involved in order to NOT pay a claim because of order of insured issues?

 

[VERT]

In your case, with two insurers, what is the order f insured? Who pays what, when? I’d hate for insurance companies to get their lawyers involved in order to NOT pay a claim because of order of insured issues?

In Indiana I would call US Law Shield first. They have a lawyer on retainer and he will answer the call. I left instructions for them to contact my wife and 2nd Call Defense to post bail. The lawyer for us law shield did not see anything wrong with having co counsel if the other company is willing to pay the retainer.

If I use a weapon other then a firearm it falls to US Law Shield.

Red Flag Law Defense US Law Shield.

General Liability 2nd Call Defense.

Out of State I call 2nd call defense.

if my wife is involved 2nd call defense.

This is all of course very hypothetical. But I do not see a conflict with having membership in multiple organizations.

 

[PhxCollier]

I think uscca just got sued in federal court in Louisiana by a platinum member because they “refused to provide promised benefits”.
The story seemed to imply the lady had abused her ex husband then ended up killing him at Walmart. Uscca paid part of her defense and then quit paying.

Andrew Branca did a post about it. I can take or leave him, but the idea that they can decide to stop paying worries me.

 

[VERT]

I think uscca just got sued in federal court in Louisiana by a platinum member because they “refused to provide promised benefits”.
The story seemed to imply the lady had abused her ex husband then ended up killing him at Walmart. Uscca paid part of her defense and then quit paying.

Andrew Branca did a post about it. I can take or leave him, but the idea that they can decide to stop paying worries me.

I think there is some type of review process with all the services. I don’t know what happened in Louisiana but maybe the enrollee is guilty of murder. Hard to insure something like that.

For some reason USCCA never won me over. Something about the constant barrage of emails and gimmicky sales tactics just didn’t set right.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

https://lawofselfdefense.com/another-self-defense-insurance-is-banned/

This week I learned that CCW Safe, a long-time and continuing Law of Self Defense partner and a leading provider of legal service memberships has been compelled to stop offering membership plans in New York and New Jersey. In fact, they won’t even be able to cover members from other states who might be compelled to defend themselves in New York and New Jersey.

CCW Safe competitor USCCA has also been compelled to exit these states, and of course these kinds of anti-self-defense efforts contributed to the utter demise of the NRA’s Carry Guard Program.

I just saw this posted on another forum and thought it might be of interest to the discussion here as well, at least for those who travel.

 

[dudley0]

Compelled by the states themselves?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Compelled by the states themselves?

https://ccwsafe.com/faq/732

 

[Twangbanger]

...

5) Do they have their own network of attorneys? If so, are they vetted and do they have experience with self-defense cases? This is a big deal, as someone who's used to defending people who are factually guilty (most trials) may not approach an affirmative defense case properly. In short, they are using to arguing "he didn't do it" instead of "he did it, but it's ok he did) and need to be able to make that second one in a justified shooting case...

This cannot be stressed enough. Self-Defense is a completely different type of legal case. As BBI said, the nominal basis is to use the "presumption of innocence" as the trump card. But "presumption of innocence" is out the window in defense cases.

I was a juror in a trial where the defense attorneys obviously had no comfort level employing a self-defense defense. Based on how events apparently unfolded the night of the incident, I thought the defendant potentially had a good self-defense case. But he and/or his lawyers did not make any kind of self-defense argument. They went with their experience, which apparently instructed them that how you win in situations like this, is to "raise doubts." It was dark outside, all the witnesses had consumed alcohol that night, and the defense attorneys thought they could shake the jury's confidence in whether or not those people actually saw, what they said they saw.

The problem was that we, the jury, had a dead body on a slab to content with, and most people on a jury believe that if there's a dead body, someone did wrong and needs to be punished for it (which is not always the case, but that's how people think). And the defendant, who also drank heavily that night, never said that he did or didn't do it. Only that he "blacked out" and "had no recollection."There was no doubt that somebody got killed, and 5 people said they saw the defendant do it. The defendant himself offered no coherent account of events, and made no effort whatsoever to explain how or why that dead body got dead.

So guess what the jury did?

He acted like a guilty person...so we treated him like one. We sent him to jail for 8~23 years for manslaughter and felonious assault. And I, as a person who believes in self-defense and would have likely supported such a claim, supported that guilty verdict. I did not feel that I had any business "inferring" an act of self-defense, if the defendant will not even claim it.

So take BBI's advice seriously. "Network of Attorneys" doesn't mean sxxt. What matters is - are they comfortable and experienced in coming out from behind the safe-position of "presumption of innocence," and constructing a defense for a situation where the defendant flat-out admits he caused a person's death or injury?​

 

[dudley0]

https://ccwsafe.com/faq/732

How dare you give me a link to click. I had to read like two paragraphs.

Whatever happened to serve and protect?

By the way, thanks. I can barely believe what I read.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How dare you give me a link to click. I had to read like two paragraphs.

Whatever happened to serve and protect?

By the way, thanks. I can barely believe what I read.

They've got some sort of protection on the website that won't let you highlight to cut/paste. I'm sorry I failed you, my liege.

 

[Turf Doctor]

Another Self-Defense Insurance Banned

https://lawofselfdefense.com/another-self-defense-insurance-is-banned/

Just putting this out to show what has happened in New York and New Jersey.

 

[cosermann]

Was reading the lead article in the ACLDN January newsletter and it reminded me of this thread. It's an overview of member-involved incidents and assistance over the last decade. -

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/a-decade-of-assistance

 

[dudley0]

Wow, reading the cases against people who used pepper spray is amazing.

 

[ECS686]

I'm sort of curious how a state or city can legally "ban" or restrict your insurance. I mean basically they (state or city) is telling you how to pay for your Attorney. Am I missing something?

 

[dprimm]

As things keep going more are going to hopefully think of this. Bringing this thread back up.

 

[Ricnzak]

As things keep going more are going to hopefully think of this. Bringing this thread back up.

Yeah I just heard a story about a 31 year old nephew of my ex is going up on murder that he claims was self defense. His mom is selling her house to fund a defense. Then I recently saw a video on Tim's that had a very true statement. I wish I remembered who to give credit to, it was something like "Every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached"